Philosophy Now Forum

I thought you said that the intrinsic market value of something was what somebody was prepared to pay for it, which is simple economics 101. Have you changed your mind about this and if so how do you propose to determine what the intrinsic value of anything is?

Obvious Leo wrote:I thought you said that the intrinsic market value of something was what somebody was prepared to pay for it, which is simple economics 101. Have you changed your mind about this and if so how do you propose to determine what the intrinsic value of anything is?

Currency, stocks and bonds, titles to automobiles, deeds to houses, they all have value that you can sell to people, but they are just pieces of paper that have no intrinsic value themselves, but represent things that do.

C'mon Bob, it's time to fess up. You haven't actually thought about this at all, have you mate? You're just making it all up as you go along.

Obvious Leo wrote:C'mon Bob, it's time to fess up. You haven't actually thought about this at all, have you mate? You're just making it all up as you go along.

I don't know if this is your idea of humor or if you've got some kind of mental condition. I hope it's an odd sense of humor.

Humour has two ewes in it, Bob. Any sheep-shagger would be expected to know that.

Obvious Leo wrote:Humour has two ewes in it, Bob. Any sheep-shagger would be expected to know that.

Anybody using terms like "humour," "ewes" and "sheep-shagger" would be turned away from our border as if he had the plague.

Mick: What you seem to be saying is that the investment banking market was, and still is, fundamentally fraudulent because the money they lend out is not limited to the total value of all certificates of property. And that this destabilising market freedom to issue unlimited money is the fault of our governments. Is that what you believe?
Bob: If there is any fraudulent activity by any financial institutions, that's a different story, and would be dealt with by the government as any other kind of fraud is handled. Fraudulent activity of any kind cannot be tolerated.

But that doesn't answer what I asked, Bob. Do you believe that because the money the banks lend out is not limited to the total value of all certificates of property, the current banking system is fraudulent? And do you believe that is the fault of the government?

mickthinks wrote: Do you believe that because the money the banks lend out is not limited to the total value of all certificates of property, the current banking system is fraudulent? And do you believe that is the fault of the government?

It's not the total banking system that would be fraudulent, just the banks issuing what in effect is counterfeit money. And, yes, it is the responsibility of the government to deal with counterfeit money.

bobevenson wrote:And, yes, it is the responsibility of the government to deal with counterfeit money.

In the case of the US it is the job of the government to PRINT the counterfeit money because this is the only way it can meet its international debt obligations. The smaller economies of the world pick up the tab for America's geo-political adventures.

Obvious Leo wrote:

bobevenson wrote:And, yes, it is the responsibility of the government to deal with counterfeit money.

In the case of the US it is the job of the government to PRINT the counterfeit money because this is the only way it can meet its international debt obligations. The smaller economies of the world pick up the tab for America's geo-political adventures.

The smaller countries as well as the larger countries of the world owe their well-being to the USA, and don't forget it, you and your countrymen who are beholden to the despotic government under which you live!

Bob: It's not the total banking system that would be fraudulent, just the banks issuing what in effect is counterfeit money.

Okay, but that is all of the banks. They all issue money in that counterfeit way. The whole banking system depends on it and has done since modern banking was invented by the goldsmiths in the 17th century.

It seems to me that, in order for the AEP to "deal with counterfeit money", it will have to outlaw public and private banking as we know it, and replace it with something new (or very old). And I suspect you have no idea what to put in its place nor whether it could work.

mickthinks wrote:Bob: It's not the total banking system that would be fraudulent, just the banks issuing what in effect is counterfeit money.

Okay, but that is all of the banks. They all issue money in that counterfeit way. The whole banking system depends on it and has done since modern banking was invented by the goldsmiths in the 17th century.

It seems to me that, in order for the AEP to "deal with counterfeit money", it will have to outlaw public and private banking as we know it, and replace it with something new (or very old). And I suspect you have no idea what to put in its place nor whether it could work.

Under the AEP, anybody can start and operate a bank. However, all assets of the bank must be backed by property certificates, and operating without such certificates is fraudulent.

Bob. A property certificate is a piece of paper with writing on it. It has no intrinsic value and since it is the only entity in your fruitcake economy which will be liable to taxation it will have no market value either. Your government will be penniless.

Obvious Leo wrote:Bob. A property certificate is a piece of paper with writing on it. It has no intrinsic value and since it is the only entity in your fruitcake economy which will be liable to taxation it will have no market value either. Your government will be penniless.

Dear Mr. Oblivious, the whole idea, sir, is that money issued by the bank is in fact backed by things of intrinsic market value. Hence, those property certificates, which back the money issued by the bank. I hope taking it step-by-step allows you to understand the AEP position more clearly.