Philosophy Now Forum

Justice is not disproportionate of any one person, but justice is the greatest good of the whole people.Just suppose your an artist painting a statue, you have made them black and some one comes up to you and says “Why do you not put the most beautiful colors on the most beautiful parts of the body the eyes should be purple?" You would say to beautify the eyes to such a degree that they are no longer eyes.

You can clothe a farmer in royal apparel, and set crowns of gold on their heads , also they might be allowed to lay on sofas, and feast by the fireplace, passing round the wine, are gentlemen farmers working only as much as they like. You would imagine them to be happy. the farmer will have lost character no longer a farmer ceases to be one. It is pretension to be what you are not.

It gets real serious when the laws and of the government are only seemingly and not real guardians, then see how they turn the society upside down. Government have the power of giving order and happiness to the society. I mean guardians to be true saviours and not the destroyers of the society. Do our own work in the best way and thus the whole society will grow up in a noble manner, and will receive the proportion of happiness which nature assigned to all.

Socrates tells a story about Leontius, the son of Aglaion, coming up one day from the Piraeus, under the north wall on the outside, observed some dead bodies lying on the ground at the place of execution. He felt a desire to see them, and also a dread and abhorrence of them; for a time he struggled and covered his eyes, but at length the desire got the better of him; and forcing them open, he ran up to the dead bodies, saying, Look, ye wretches, take your fill of the fair sight.

Barbara Brooks wrote:lancek4,

I have read your post a couple of time and enjoyed very much. your way of thinking

What do you propose ?

BB

I am not sure what to propose in this type of forum. I can sense in you expositions some sort of 'resisting element in how you appraoch reality. You tend to resist asserting a Truth, but instead offer a picture. I guess I gather this as a "showing", and thus thought to ask you about your interest in Kierkegaard.
Thus your picture I see as a metaphysics, as I talk about above.

I suppose I propose asking questions and challenging authority. In this way a preciptational position begins to emerge. One that tends away from an assertion of an ethics of power yet somehow promotes an inherent ethical approach through an understanding of the things we take for granted, and upon which we move in denial to silently promote control and authority.
It is a very Socrates way. But one that avoids the traps of conventional knowledge about such Socratic Method.

I ask questions, and often find in the end, people are not able to address the ends of their assertions. they resort to denial, rejection and insult. This is where my effort takes up. The typical responses show that the Truth that is so stubbornly and confidently upheld are based in defending a position that is unsound: a faith. A faith that holds objects as the Absolute means for their identity. The Object God.

Ask me a question.

Barbara Brooks wrote:Ask me a question.

What is Reality? I think this is the question you are answering with you picture.

What ethics are you promoting through this picture of reality?
or a more concrete example (ala Plato): how is this "justice" concerned with a whole humanity?

“What is Reality?” I think truth of self . When I was nineteen years old. I got a job at a department store in down town Boston, MA. My job was controller of the merchandise and every time I answered the phone I would have to say control.

One day the buyers secretary who never gave me the time of day never even spoke to me and I had to pass by her desk frequently was a true commander of the ship’s administrative assistant. This day she strolled over to where I was working and condescendingly lays down some money on my desk and tells me to go get the buyers and her some coffee.

I felt at that moment afraid I had a lot to lose she was one of the higher ups. But even though I feared the firing there was something in me which is always in me I refused. I said no I would not and went back to my work. Rather lose my job then lose thy self . She was astounded a black girl a mere controller's job refusing to get coffee for her and the big bosses.

The ethics I am presenting here are dialectic principles of Thales, Zeno, Socrates, Descartes, Kepler, Goethe and Hegel.

As far as Justice I think Wikileaks is a perfect example of whole humanity.

Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:41 pm
Posts: 1683
“What is Reality?” I think truth of self . When I was nineteen years old. I got a job at a department store in down town Boston, MA. My job was controller of the merchandise and every time I answered the phone I would have to say control.

One day the buyers secretary who never gave me the time of day never even spoke to me and I had to pass by her desk frequently was a true commander of the ship’s administrative assistant. This day she strolled over to where I was working and condescendingly lays down some money on my desk and tells me to go get the buyers and her some coffee.

I felt at that moment afraid I had a lot to lose she was one of the higher ups. But even though I feared the firing there was something in me which is always in me I refused. I said no I would not and went back to my work. Rather lose my job then lose thy self . She was astounded a black girl a mere controller's job refusing to get coffee for her and the big bosses.

The ethics I am presenting here are dialectic principles of Thales, Zeno, Socrates, Descartes, Kepler, Goethe and Hegel.

As far as Justice I think Wikileaks is a perfect example of whole humanity.

“What is Reality?” I think truth of self . When I was nineteen years old. I got a job at a department store in down town Boston, MA. My job was controller of the merchandise and every time I answered the phone I would have to say control.


One day the buyers secretary who never gave me the time of day never even spoke to me and I had to pass by her desk frequently was a true commander of the ship’s administrative assistant. This day she strolled over to where I was working and condescendingly lays down some money on my desk and tells me to go get the buyers and her some coffee.

I felt at that moment afraid I had a lot to lose she was one of the higher ups. But even though I feared the firing there was something in me which is always in me I refused. I said no I would not and went back to my work. Rather lose my job then lose thy self . She was astounded a black girl a mere controller's job refusing to get coffee for her and the big bosses.
Truth of Self. Yes, I can agree. I then ask: what is this Self? You implicate it in this story of activity, but what is it that granted you this a)notion of Self as you present as 'truth of self', and b)that Self upon which such a notion may have been granted ?
The ethics I am presenting here are dialectic principles of Thales, Zeno, Socrates, Descartes, Kepler, Goethe and Hegel.

I am not familiar with the concrete examples of these authors. Justice, honor.. etc.. general human compassion and understanding ??
the question I ask is more introspective and concerns the first question (mostly 'b'): what is the actual mechanism of communication (your words) reflecting of ethics? In other words, how does such a term 'crystalization' (as I quickly remember of your writing) imply a manner of proper perception upon the world in relation to the other terms you use, and how does the concepts reflect an ethics? And then: how is this ethics determined by an inevitability of history?
And by extension: what is 'freedom'?

As far as Justice I think Wikileaks is a perfect example of whole humanity.[/quote]
What is Wikileaks? Please inform me.

(1) Thought   is in fact self In other words, “genuine”. Thought insofar as  self has infinite relation to self,  only from self does  determination come.

(2)Thought is   the seed , the inclination, which,  contains in self multiple qualities. Self  pervades and permeates all aspects of being. Self within  self; it does not isolated, one with  itself: and advances within this total wealth of self concrete actual spirit within self and receive together in common the like determinate self.

All images that dwell in my mind are embossed by the intervention of senses and they communicate impressions upon what should be regarded as reason and truth , it is seen with effort is the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of light in this visible world, and the power upon which I will act rationally either in public or private life.


(3) WikiLeaks has released hundreds of thousands of United
State Department documents leaked revealed a hidden world of backstage international diplomacy, divulging candid comments from world leaders and detailing occasional U.S. pressure tactics overseas.

WikiLeaks cables claim the Government protected US interests in the Iraq War inquiry and also reveal fears over the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

According to one document released by the whistle blowing website, British officials warned the inquiry would attract a "feeding frenzy" when it started.
A message was sent on September 22, 2009, two months after the inquiry started, from the American embassy.
The cable said Jon Day, the Ministry of Defence's Director General for security policy, "promised that the UK had 'put measures in place to protect your [the US] interests'" during the inquiry.
An inquiry spokesman said: "The Iraq Inquiry is independent of the British Government.
"The protocol agreed between the Iraq Inquiry and the Government allows for material to be withheld from publication if publication would damage international relations or breach the third party rule governing non-disclosure of intelligence material."

lancek4,

You were kidding about Wikileaks right?

You could not ask for a better ethical principle. A true ethical achievement here the people have spoken finally the little person had been stifled until Wikileaks opened up a vehicle for the little people who documented daily and seemingly honestly for one reason they did because they were told their opinions would be kept secret for twenty five years. Now, all these opinions are i being exposed in all of the major papers and all over the internet around the world.

Courage is a mighty agent and the saving grace about real and false opinion. Self too is a mighty agent under all circumstances preserves, and does not lose courage; it is more than any soda or lye; or does not lose courage by grief, terror, and longing, the mightiest of all solvents in mind.

BB

Your posts are very informative and interesting, but are, what I would call, quite "activist". While I understand what you are saying of Self and such, I do not leave the analysis there. I ask: how do I know of what I consider my Self? Is it an essential category? What has informed me that I could understand 'self' as I do?

lancek4,

Because I had to rebuild "self" back up again I had to wipe out my old existence of before rebuilding I had to start with a clean slate . I began learning from the Oxford Dictionary that a friend gave me, the whole fifteen books shrunk into two books and a magnifying glass accompanied . I would read Hegel I would have to look up every word I began writing on the side of the book the dictionary meaning. Then I started to hand write on yellow legal pads in order for myself to remember and also permeate them in my mind.

The language skill is attained with great deal of trouble in order that I may be able to say what is acceptable of philosophy. Socrates, believed the old saying of wiser men than ourselves, that a person of sense should not try to please his or her fellow people or at least it should not be their first objective, but please for good ethical reasons. If the road is long and twisty, wonder not at this for where the end is great may take a longer time.

BB

The whole realm of the truth of mind and in such knowledge that the truth is set forth not as abstract, but as consciousness in virtue of consciousness.

I press forward to the true form of existence, lay aside what isnot charicteristic to me, with what is only for self; My consciousness becomes identified with this very stage proper of mind when finally I grasp the truth of knowledge.

Barbara Brooks wrote:The whole realm of the truth of mind and in such knowledge that the truth is set forth not as abstract, but as consciousness in virtue of consciousness.

I press forward to the true form of existence, lay aside what isnot charicteristic to me, with what is only for self; My consciousness becomes identified with this very stage proper of mind when finally I grasp the truth of knowledge.

I have to ask: what is truth? what is knowledge?
What is existance? Express to me what is not characteristic of you. Explain to me all that is you. I submit that you could never do so, nor could you do so in a manner that would satisfy yourself.

These are the sorts of questions socrates treats. i do understand what you are saying, but I would point you back to Socrates (since you seem to like the Plato) and look once again at what he is really sayng. He is speaking not upon a segreagated, active Self, but towards those who have faith in the things that grant the truth of their activity; this is the whole of the Person of Socrates, refracted by Plato. When we segregate plato and Socrates's topics from an interest in addressing the sgregated objects, we get the activist, the statesman.

What is truth but reality. What is knowledge but recollection. What is existence but being.

For me I don't get involve with politics I am not much of a consumer. I own a small worker own janitorial business for over twenty years me and my husband and have a couple of employees. They have worked with us for over twenty years.

I look at the janitorial business as a philosophical journey I have seen so much of the human character. Now we only do commercial jobs but when we first started we were doing houses I get to see people stripped of attire as they say.