What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

[Bill Wiltrack]

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You were definitely emotionally motivated earlier within this thread.


The intellectual tension that you were experiencing from not being able to obtain a distinctive leg-up upon your co-poster aided to your emotional/creative desire to be understood.

Do you see what i am saying?





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[creativesoul]

You were definitely emotionally motivated earlier within this thread.

Perhaps.

The intellectual tension that you were experiencing from not being able to obtain a distinctive leg-up upon your co-poster aided to your emotional/creative desire to be understood.

Do you see what i am saying?

Well, let's see if I got it right...

You're saying that you believe that either 1. I thought, or 2. you thought... that I was unable to obtain a distinctive leg-up on Satyr. You're also saying that that lack of obtaining a leg-up aided(created) an emotional/creative desire within me to be understood(which would indicate the former). I would say that we all have the need to be understood and that that need simply cannot be satisfied by anyone in certain situations. I would also say that in order for intellectual tension within me to be a result of not obtaining a leg-up on Satyr, I would have to believe that a leg-up had not already been obtained.

That is quite simply not the case.

So, while I would agree that there was motivation for me to put forth a quick poetic device which negated Satyr's claim about my lack of poetic spirit(whatever the hell that means), that motivation was not because I thought that I had lacked having a leg-up. More like just further driving the point home that truth is not determined by thought/belief. There is no true for you, and true for me.

A (positive)statement is either true or false.

[creativesoul]

Coolio put the flow back in yo eee-ah.



Is it time to do philosophy yet?

[creativesoul]

The cup is either on the table or not.

'The cup is on the table' is a true statement IFF the cup is on the table.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I agree with you; truth is not determined by thought/belief. There is no true for you, and true for me


Not having a leg-up was a poor choice of words on my part. There was a stale mate where it seemed everyone was screaming and yet no one could hear. There was no winner nor an up-one man-ship.

It was just a standoff.

All parties were emotionally charged and intellectually frustrated.

I am also adding that this recipe is a goldmine for creative souls such as yourself.





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[Arising_uk]

So you agree with the goat Bill?

That your idea that there is a 'truth' that is being obscured is an errant assumption?

[Satyr]

The cup is either on the table or not.

'The cup is on the table' is a true statement IFF the cup is on the table.

I thank the uncreative mind for reducing any doubts I had about his quality of mind down to a pimple on a whale's scrotum. With this worn-out response to my views he has made himself irrelevant to my goals.
The cup on the table crap is an old one. In an earlier reincarnation, with another retard, it was the "lamp" argument.

I, submit to his superior opinion and declare him the undisputed victor.
No "stalemate" required. I am vanquished.
My hypothesis has been thoroughly thrashed, no need to follow through with kicking a dead horse...or a dead goat, as the case may be.
Finally an argument I had not thought of before. Truly, this place is a hidden gem of philosophical discourse. Never have I come across such bright minds, with such flexible imaginations.
The mere mention of your foot size or your diploma makes you aware of the masculine attitude versus the feminine attitude, and how fat Greek women are, compared to Turkish women, constitutes a poke no man can endure.

The cup on the table!!! Fuck, how could I have missed that??? Very original.
The cup IS on the table. Excellent point, notwithstanding what I said about simplifying and generalizing.
Oh well, back to the drawing board.

I also enjoyed the diversions of The Truth, versus Truth, the unquantifiable Will, Life, Ego, or Quantity itself, as well as the ever so slight subtlety of a truth which is in reference to a human opinion versus a truth that lies out there, in some universal mind, awaiting to be discovered, ushering the end to all thinking.

But, on the off chance that someone might be misguided enough to be interested in what I have to say about the Absolute, Reality and the teacup on the table "truth", I link you to a thesis that contains all the responses necessary, making my departure all the more necessary.

Interactions and Interpretations

Oh and one last "thing"...an ever so slight beginning in my long road towards rehabilitation: Oregon....would be good.

Ta, Ta,

[creativesoul]

Whales have scrotums? Shit. Hey Bill... gotta pic?

Satyr,

That 'article' needs focus. You cannot possibly expect someone else on a philosophy forum to read that thing in it's entirety. Especially given the intro. Way too many categorical leaps. Break it down. Which part would you engage with me?

Pick one, and lay out your argument/ground for holding the position that you do.

[Arising_uk]

I tell you Bill,
As a parent with a just teenage daughter and a soon to be teenage son, I find your last four pictures of men and women express much that is wrong with our current culture.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Why does everybody want to leave this thread?


I have just read Interactions and Interpretations by Apostolakos Constantino, which I will assume is our associate, Satyr.

You can view the document at the link he provided.


I don't know where to begin. This is just a fantastic manuscript.

It is filled, line after line, with the precious gems that I referred to earlier within this thread.

I feel at a total loss for words to describe yet I am furiously trying to type some sort of verbal reaction.

The document has left me momentarily pleasantly shocked and unexpectedly refreshed at the same time.


It is a feeling that is hard to describe.

If you have not referred to Apostolakos's text yet I suggest you do so immediately.



I want to write a review but as yet, I am unable to.

As Apostolakos suggests early on, the text should be read at least two times.


I have the feeling I will be referring to this manual much more often.


At this point the only rational thing that I can type is, Satyr, if you are still out there, don't leave this forum.











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[Bill Wiltrack]

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I have just been introduced to Scribd.com http://www.scribd.com/

It looks like an amazing yet frightening evolution of mankind.


Perhaps that is another thread...




I found the author Apostolakos Constantino published within that site. I am currently under the impression that Apostolakos Constantino is our own satyr.


http://www.scribd.com/search?query=Apos ... onstantino




Apostolakos sub-title in his incredible work Interactions and Interpretations in part, states,

May my sourness turn into a sweet aftertaste.


It has my dear friend.




It already has...




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[Arising_uk]

At this point the only rational thing that I can type is, Satyr, if you are still out there, don't leave this forum.

You couldn't drag him away.
p.s.
So you'd agree with him that your post about 'the truth' not being seen is hidden religious nonsense?
p.p.s.
Why bother travelling as you could find his essence here;

The Goat and his nanny

A Goats eye view of life

Lifestyle tips by a Goat

Goatboys metaphysics

Socialworking Goat

Theres probably something in Ethics as well.

[Mark Question]

The cup is either on the table or not.
'The cup is on the table' is a true statement IFF the cup is on the table.

I thank the uncreative mind for reducing any doubts I had about his quality of mind down to a pimple on a whale's scrotum. With this worn-out response to my views he has made himself irrelevant to my goals.

whats the goal or goals in philosophy? getting own name carved to history of philosophy-memorials? love of wisdom? money? sleeps with zen-monks?..or just asking: why 'The cup is on the table' is a true statement IFF the cup is on the table?

[spike]

The Goat and his nanny

A Goats eye view of life

Lifestyle tips by a Goat

Goatboys metaphysics

Socialworking Goat

This is known as Goatism

[Satyr]

whats the goal or goals in philosophy?

If philosophy, as the search for wisdom, is not interested in reality free from personal tastes and social/cultural conventions, then what is it good for?

Most, in time, find philosophy boring, because they never venture outside the institutional boundaries this discipline has been placed within; they cannot find applications for their musings, because all of them are rooted in popular culture and communal decrees.
Discriminate here and here bit not here... thou shalt not...
Differentiate here and here but, God forbid, not here...thou shalt not...
To state "The cup is on the table" suffices. They are done with what to be "on" or to be at all means. They just want quick easy conclusions; ones even a child would agree on.
"Timmy, is the cup on the table"....""Yes it is daddy".....deal done....."Timmy do you exist?"...."Yes, sir, I exist...like duh".

Then they begin to wonder: "What, the fuck, is philosophy good for?" or finding the same old tired questions like "Is there a God?", "Is there free-will"? and "What is reality?" followed by the same prescribed answers, the same old Jewish crap, delivered to them on a christian platter, they become disillusioned.

"Why think at all" they wonder in secret? All is self-evident. The cup is on the table.
This is useful because it was meant to be. It is a simplification generalization, not surprisingly one which is acceptable given that some generalizations are considered evil or wrong.

It's all decided, no?
The plate is ON the table...so why go further?
Plate, a given, table, a given, on a given....all that is required is an acknowledgement that this common perspective is universal and not limited.

We are all equal, there is an absolute and we must find it, humanity is a unity, reality is static and it is change which is an illusion.
Life is sacred, even if we must destroy it daily just to survive...but certain life, namely human life, is divine and deserving of more than all this natural selection and suffering.

All "deserve" this and that, most obviously all deserve love and life. This is a noble act, though it is selfish in spirit. You see, if you offer this compromise so that it might be returned it becomes a common value.
But to retain its spiritual authenticity one must play along with its purity.

getting own name carved to history of philosophy-memorials?

Who, the fuck, cares?

love of wisdom?

What about them?
I've dissected the notion of "love". I don't think you'll like it either.

Wisdom?

money?

An abstraction of resources based on a human value system...and?

sleeps with zen-monks?

I would rather sleep alone.
Hypocrites irk me...particularly the ones that come to philosophy forums pretending to know what the fuck they are talking about or pretending that their communal bullshit constitutes a transcendental fact, just because the majority agrees. If so we should still think of the earth as flat....I mean is not the horizon level?...and we should still burn witches.

The horizon IS level to the earth...and to our sight...therefore the earth IS flat.
No, wait...the cup IS on the table, and since nothing appears to be moving, it is a Truth.
It is there, all there...but what is there?...never-mind...it is so.
What the fuck are you people doing in a philosophy forum?

Metal looks like it is immutable therefore it must be. It is immortal, a static.
Look at it, damn you!!! Is it moving; does it look like it is changing to you?!!!

Look...the sun IS rotating around the earth, therefore it IS just so. The stars look to be doing the same...therefore the earth IS the center of the universe.
Can't you see it? It's, fuckin', obvious, man?!!!

..or just asking: why 'The cup is on the table' is a true statement IFF the cup is on the table?

My, dear, man. I have already given you the solution.
Like the retard, you've failed to follow it up with personal effort. You wish for me to spoon-feed you everything.
Tiring...and useless for me.

If you cannot grasp the solution from what was provided, why would I presume that you could even if I simplify it further?
I've been telling shit to arousing_princess for years, nothing has seeped through.
She still thinks masculinity is about her penis and her guns.

Your lucidity does not matter to me, particularly when your mind proves to be thick.
I cannot waste my time on morons...my vulgarity is a way of filtering the many out.

Man...what do you see when you look upon a table with a cup?
Ask yourself.
What medium is involved?
Is any of it static, and if not, on what grounds do you establish identity?

What is the relationship between observer and observed? Is it pure and static or is it interactive and ongoing?
Ask yourself this first: What is a cup? A name of a thing....you can substitute it with any other name like: tree, television, particle, a mountain, a planet....and on and on.
What is the label of "truth" referring to, outside human abstractions? Is "truth" the correct word for the absolute, or does it simply denote a personal perspective, projecting it as a universal, an ideal,...keeping in mind that time is a measurement of change?

Finally what does "is" even mean? Is it a timeless, dimensionless designation? Does it only make sense within particular parameters....like what simplification entails?
Is it a static concept implying an absolute point in space/time?
Does it simply designate a relationship, an interaction, within a given time and apace - space being a projection of temporal possibilities?

----------------------
Dennet on Consciousness

Unfortunately consciousness is not quantifiable making the retard exempt from considering any of its possibilities, despite his remarkable poetic ability. I, myself, am unable to deal with his level of retardation.
Woe and behold, Dennet is both bald and sporting a bit of a belly, making him inferior to the princess' eyes. He is such a looooser, and probably does not get laid often.
All those credentials and he can't even get pussy...imagine that!!!

Listen to the paradoxes created by language.

I, from now on, will ignore what the uncreative retard has to say unless it is precisely and definitely quantifiable....unlike Dennet's consciousness.
I will accept his rules in this case, because he has defeated me and I bow to his dominance.
I do so because I truly respect him and so I wish to not trouble him with crap he already dismisses as untrue...like 99% of philosophy and science...which is an outcrop of philosophy.
I promise to never reply to any of his posts, unless he quantifies the concepts he uses. I use his own rules to judge him.

I would suggest an alternative option to him, like a forum dedicated to math, where the #1 is quantifiable besides being self-referential, or a forum on gossip and dick-waving, which he obviously is immune to.
I whistled...and he ran.

I am doing it for him, despite my need to be taught by him, and so this act should be considered a selfless act of humble acceptance of his obvious superiority... no his transcendent truthiness.
He knows Truth exists he just hasn't figured out what it is where it is or how to get to it. In this he is truly humble.
He is one of the many faithful. a true believer. A born again secular fanatic. He is progressive because he is born-again.

He knows, like Christian's know God, but he is humbled in that he does not know how he does so.
He does not see Truth, he does not know Truth, everything about him contradicts his faith, yet he remains faithful.

You see, "the cup is on the table", thinking reduced to a child's declaration.
"God is all around us"...or "God is outside, up there, everywhere."

He knows that TRUTH exists, The Truth, despite being unable to provide proof of it...like Christians know God is there....no matter what.
He too will tell you: "There is a reality, therefore someone or something must have created it".

Did anyone deny reality?
No...but someone denied any absolute conception of it, like truth implies.

Yes...it is THAT simple.