Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:03 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:55 pm When Chomsky refers to sane, he doesn't use it in the context of morality.

Then that's Chomsky's problem. He should be pointing out how morally unbalanced Putin is. It's awfully obvious, given his career.

But those who provoked him knew that. They poked the psycho. And they're still doing it. And they're the Democrats.

OK. So you agree that Putin is morally unbalanced. That was the point I was making. He invaded Ukraine as a sane person. That's doing evil and being responsible for it.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:04 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:59 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:53 pm
You can't even think straight. If it was NATO, we can be reasonably sure it isn't "Russian propaganda," no matter how convenient it might be for you to pretend otherwise.

Just as you left out my reference to a heavily slanted think piece which is the context for my description of the work as propaganda, your source worked hard to impose a very implausible interpretation on the testimony that was placed before the European Parliament.

For starters, NATO is not ONE PERSON. ONE PERSON, cannot speak on behalf of other members of his or her organization, if that's what you're referring to.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has a decent claim to speak on behalf of the organisation he is secretary general of to be honest.

The full version of the remarks in question is available here.

No sane person can read them and conclude that they amount to an admission that NATO caused this war. But if you are signed up for the full Russian propaganda experience you can will yourself to believe more or less anything by now.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:40 pm The Democrat Party Hates America
By Mark Levin

Check it out.
It’s a book. Here’s a link.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/ ... 1501183157

The seven-time #1 New York Times bestselling author, radio host, and Fox News star returns to the page to reveal the radically dangerous Democrat agenda that is upending American life.…”

Thank God there's nothing "radically dangerous" about the political agenda of the American ultraconservatives, who have usurped the Republican Party, the American far-right or alt-right! *DUH!!!*

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:10 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:04 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:59 pm
Just as you left out my reference to a heavily slanted think piece which is the context for my description of the work as propaganda, your source worked hard to impose a very implausible interpretation on the testimony that was placed before the European Parliament.

For starters, NATO is not ONE PERSON. ONE PERSON, cannot speak on behalf of other members of his or her organization, if that's what you're referring to.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has a decent claim to speak on behalf of the organisation he is secretary general of to be honest.

The full version of the remarks in question is available here.

No sane person can read them and conclude that they amount to an admission that NATO caused this war. But if you are signed up for the full Russian propaganda experience you can will yourself to believe more or less anything by now.

Yes. Well, apparently Stoltenberg is evil and has no sense of morality and is saying that because he's confessing his guilt, not because he's simply stating a chain of events and trying to intelligently assert why he believes Putin is doing what he is doing. Other than that, Stoltenberg has no independent thought, he's just a tool of the "deep state" that REALLY controls things, saying what "they" want HIM to say.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:03 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:55 pm When Chomsky refers to sane, he doesn't use it in the context of morality.

Then that's Chomsky's problem. He should be pointing out how morally unbalanced Putin is. It's awfully obvious, given his career.

But those who provoked him knew that. They poked the psycho. And they're still doing it. And they're the Democrats.

OK. So you agree that Putin is morally unbalanced. That was the point I was making. He invaded Ukraine as a sane person. That's doing evil and being responsible for it.

He was provoked, as well. Farage warned them. Putin told them what he'd do. Biden and Co. knew full well they were flirting with a psycho, and pushing that useless organization NATO into his face. They wanted to. They didn't care. Ukrainian and Russian blood is nothing to them.

So Putin's the psycho over there. But our psychos are over here.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:03 pm
Then that's Chomsky's problem. He should be pointing out how morally unbalanced Putin is. It's awfully obvious, given his career.

But those who provoked him knew that. They poked the psycho. And they're still doing it. And they're the Democrats.

OK. So you agree that Putin is morally unbalanced. That was the point I was making. He invaded Ukraine as a sane person. That's doing evil and being responsible for it.

He was provoked, as well. Farage warned them. Putin told them what he'd do. Biden and Co. knew full well they were flirting with a psycho, and pushing that useless organization NATO into his face. They wanted to. They didn't care. Ukrainian and Russian blood is nothing to them.

So Putin's the psycho over there. But our psychos are over here.

OK. So invading a country because you feel it's necessary for national security is OK. Is that correct?

ANYWAY, my whole point is that if Putin just wants to go down in the history books alongside, the Bush family, Reagan, Nixon and others, as just another person who ordered his country to invade someone else, then so be it. Obviously that's the highest thing humanity can aspire to. We may as well pack up and commit collective suicide. That's all we're here to do is fight wars and destroy other living beings. There's no other point than that. No thanks. Just get me out of this world as painlessly as possible, please. I'm one of those crazy non-believers who think it's immoral to kill others. I must have gotten that from the Christians, except most Christians I've met in life seem to have no problem with people dying in wars. In fact most leaders seem to rise up through the church ranks before becoming leaders. That tells me that churches are FAILING their jobs to pacify people.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:10 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:04 pm

For starters, NATO is not ONE PERSON. ONE PERSON, cannot speak on behalf of other members of his or her organization, if that's what you're referring to.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has a decent claim to speak on behalf of the organisation he is secretary general of to be honest.

The full version of the remarks in question is available here.

No sane person can read them and conclude that they amount to an admission that NATO caused this war. But if you are signed up for the full Russian propaganda experience you can will yourself to believe more or less anything by now.

Yes. Well, apparently Stoltenberg is evil and has no sense of morality and is saying that because he's confessing his guilt, not because he's simply stating a chain of events and trying to intelligently assert why he believes Putin is doing what he is doing. Other than that, Stoltenberg has no independent thought, he's just a tool of the "deep state" that REALLY controls things, saying what "they" want HIM to say.

Oh well. It's going to be a tough few months for our alt-right chums as they watch their false God bought low in the courts. Give 'em a break, he just lost the civil fraud case on summary judgment because his defence was so weak. the Art of the Deal guy won't even be a billionaire soon.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:29 pm ANYWAY, my whole point is that if Putin just wants to go down in the history books alongside, the Bush family, Reagan, Nixon and others, as just another person who ordered his country to invade someone else, then so be it.

He blew up three apartment blocks full of Russian citizens to manufacture casus belli to invade Chechnya during his first year in office. So that horse fucked off a long time ago.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:05 pm

OK. So you agree that Putin is morally unbalanced. That was the point I was making. He invaded Ukraine as a sane person. That's doing evil and being responsible for it.

He was provoked, as well. Farage warned them. Putin told them what he'd do. Biden and Co. knew full well they were flirting with a psycho, and pushing that useless organization NATO into his face. They wanted to. They didn't care. Ukrainian and Russian blood is nothing to them.

So Putin's the psycho over there. But our psychos are over here.

OK. So invading a country because you feel it's necessary for national security is OK. Is that correct?

Read more carefully.

Putin's a psycho.
Biden's a basket-case.
His handlers are psychos.
The people who are paying for the psychos are the Ukrainians and Russians...plus the taxpayers who fund the useless organization called "NATO."

Now, what part of that suggested to you that "invading" was "okay"?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:52 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 pm
He was provoked, as well. Farage warned them. Putin told them what he'd do. Biden and Co. knew full well they were flirting with a psycho, and pushing that useless organization NATO into his face. They wanted to. They didn't care. Ukrainian and Russian blood is nothing to them.

So Putin's the psycho over there. But our psychos are over here.

OK. So invading a country because you feel it's necessary for national security is OK. Is that correct?

Read more carefully.

Putin's a psycho.
Biden's a basket-case.
His handlers are psychos.
The people who are paying for the psychos are the Ukrainians and Russians...plus the taxpayers who fund the useless organization called "NATO."

Now, what part of that suggested to you that "invading" was "okay"?

None of it is suggesting to me that invading a country is OK. That's why I'm saying Putin is guilty of what he's doing and bears responsibility for it if he's sane. Am I wrong? That's all I want to know. Is it wrong to think Putin is doing injustice?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:54 pm I'm saying Putin is guilty of what he's doing and bears responsibility for it if he's sane. Am I wrong?

Who's more psycho...the psycho that invades, or the psychos who knew they were dealing with a psycho who'd warned them he'd invade, and who went ahead and forced his hand, and who now keep him invading by threatening regime change if he stops?

Meanwhile, they're both bleeding Russia and the Ukraine, and neither side cares a jot.

Answer: they're both psychos. So just because one is guilty does not imply the other's not. Both sides are plain evil.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:27 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:54 pm I'm saying Putin is guilty of what he's doing and bears responsibility for it if he's sane. Am I wrong?

Who's more psycho...the psycho that invades, or the psychos who knew they were dealing with a psycho who'd warned them he'd invade, and who went ahead and forced his hand, and who now keep him invading by threatening regime change if he stops?

Meanwhile, they're both bleeding Russia and the Ukraine, and neither side cares a jot.

Answer: they're both psychos. So just because one is guilty does not imply the other's not. Both sides are plain evil.

Never mind. Go back to your wife and enjoy.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:28 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:27 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:54 pm I'm saying Putin is guilty of what he's doing and bears responsibility for it if he's sane. Am I wrong?

Who's more psycho...the psycho that invades, or the psychos who knew they were dealing with a psycho who'd warned them he'd invade, and who went ahead and forced his hand, and who now keep him invading by threatening regime change if he stops?

Meanwhile, they're both bleeding Russia and the Ukraine, and neither side cares a jot.

Answer: they're both psychos. So just because one is guilty does not imply the other's not. Both sides are plain evil.

Never mind.

Out of excuses? That's unusual...Democrat apologists usually have an infinite supply of explanations as to why none of what they do is ever their fault.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:03 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:28 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:27 pm
Who's more psycho...the psycho that invades, or the psychos who knew they were dealing with a psycho who'd warned them he'd invade, and who went ahead and forced his hand, and who now keep him invading by threatening regime change if he stops?

Meanwhile, they're both bleeding Russia and the Ukraine, and neither side cares a jot.

Answer: they're both psychos. So just because one is guilty does not imply the other's not. Both sides are plain evil.

Never mind.

Out of excuses? That's unusual...Democrat apologists usually have an infinite supply of explanations as to why none of what they do is ever their fault.

Yes. Yes. I'm going to hell. I'd rather go there then spend the rest of my life playing a game of who is more pious, you or me.