Philosophy Now Forum

Maia wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:18 amThe original tribe of the Angles spoke a Germanic language. Old English, as we call it today.

So it's Germanic then, not English, according to you.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:02 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:46 amJews don't actually run any of those industries. You are talking about antisemtic conspiracy theories as if they are sensible.

Delusional, you and I both know that Jews own significant portions of these industries.

None of those industries are run by any particular group other then males in general. The important banks are all owned by share holders in the stock market, not some shadowy cabal of Jews. I've never even heard of a conspiracy theory about jews owning the pharmaceutical companies, but whatever, its' shareholders again. Media isn't really controlled by Jews but at least there is a conspiracy theory for that one.

I think you and your nazi friends are too busy spotting Jews to notice that they are the minority everywhere except in synagogues, which is the one industry they do actually control.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:02 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:46 amAre you from the 17th century? What's all this nonsense about usuary? Interest rates aren't set by Jews, we have central banks like the Fed and the Bank of England that set interest rates to stabilise prices against desired employment levels.

Yes, they are, Janet Yellen runs the FED in the United States. Care to lookup her Wiki page? I'll do your homework, for you:

Quote (Wikipedia):

Yellen was born on August 13, 1946,[2] to a family of Polish Jewish[3] ancestry in the Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, neighborhood of New York City, and grew up there.[4] Her mother was Anna Ruth (née Blumenthal; 1907–1986), an elementary school teacher who gave up her teaching job to become a stay-at-home mother. Her father was Julius Yellen (1906–1975), a family physician who worked from the ground floor of their house. Janet has an older brother, John (born 1942), who is a program director for archaeology at the National Science Foundation.[5][6]

In a speech at the POLIN Museum of the History of Polish Jews, Yellen said that her father's family immigrated to the United States from Sokołów Podlaski, a small town about 50 miles outside of Warsaw. She shared that nearly the entirety of its Jewish population, including many of her relatives, was deported or murdered during the Holocaust.[7]

Janet Yellen does not run the Fed, she is the Secretary of the Treasury which is a cabinet level position in your government, making her part of the executive branch thereof.The Federal Reserve is an independent agency that applies its own rules and is only directed by the executive branch when the president nominates a new chair, who must be be approved by the legislative assembly. Jerome Powell has been the chair of the Fed for about 5 years. I don't think Powell is Jewish, although I have never bothered to wonder because I am not a nazi like you are.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:02 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:46 amIt's the manufacture of the antisemtic myth of this Jewish economic leverage that is "Anti-Semitism". Along with that blood libel you did about Ukraine sacrificing millions of Slavs a while ago of course, that was "Anti-Semitism" too.

Is it "Anti-Semitism" if it's true? No, it wouldn't be.

There are labels to be applied to the sort of person who thinks anti-semitic conspiracy theories are true. The hat fits, it is time for you wear it.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:02 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:46 am

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:10 am Only the Anglos, the European Rothschilds, perhaps the Saudi Arabian royals, the Chinese Communist Party, etc. have similar racial organization and motivation equivalent to be competitive against these types of international trades and economies.

I can't even decode that weirdness. Is there some other way to put whatever that point was?

It means that some "conspiracies" are known conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are "theory". Some are true. Some groups, organizations, work according to their group interests. When it comes to Jews, it is an ethnic-racial hypothesis. You are referring to the "conspiracy" of international Jews "controlling everything". I illuminate the details. It's not everything. But it is, significant portions of Western Civilization in banking and finance, at the least, and excluding Mass Media.

Is that supposed to help make sense of the contents of the quoted text? Why are the royal family of Saudi Arabia a seperate race, same question for the CCP and the Rothschilds?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:02 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:46 amSo you do hold a belief that black people have an inherently violent nature, but you can't quite write the words for yourself?

It's not that simple.

Black violence tends to be gang bangers drive-by shooting each other, weekly, in the Chicago ghetto.

White violence tends to be international warfare, as such Russians and Ukrainians being slaughtered in the East.

I don't even know what to bother making of that.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:23 amNone of those industries are run by any particular group other then males in general. The important banks are all owned by share holders in the stock market, not some shadowy cabal of Jews. I've never even heard of a conspiracy theory about jews owning the pharmaceutical companies, but whatever, its' shareholders again. Media isn't really controlled by Jews but at least there is a conspiracy theory for that one.

I think you and your nazi friends are too busy spotting Jews to notice that they are the minority everywhere except in synagogues, which is the one industry they do actually control.

"Stop noticinggggg!"

Are you sure you're in the right forum? If you don't want to notice things, maybe Philosophy isn't for you.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:23 amJanet Yellen does not run the Fed, she is the Secretary of the Treasury which is a cabinet level position in your government, making her part of the executive branch thereof.The Federal Reserve is an independent agency that applies its own rules and is only directed by the executive branch when the president nominates a new chair, who must be be approved by the legislative assembly. Jerome Powell has been the chair of the Fed for about 5 years. I don't think Powell is Jewish, although I have never bothered to wonder because I am not a nazi like you are.

Why do you repeat your slander, although already disproven?

Are you the type that believes if you lie hard enough, others will start believing it? These are rhetorical questions. The answer is obvious.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:23 amThere are labels to be applied to the sort of person who thinks anti-semitic conspiracy theories are true. The hat fits, it is time for you wear it.

Your hat is too small for me, moshe. I prefer larger hats.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:23 amIs that supposed to help make sense of the contents of the quoted text? Why are the royal family of Saudi Arabia a seperate race, same question for the CCP and the Rothschilds?

Ah yes, "we are all One race, the Human race". Pathetic, anything else?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:23 amI don't even know what to bother making of that.

Exercise your IQ, maybe gain a few points, hit the triple digit mark, and come back with a fresh perspective.

Why did you evade every point there?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:45 amWhy did you evade every point there?

Because "You are a Nazi" isn't an argument.

Especially not after my grandpappy pulled yours from the concentration camps.

Especially not after my grandpappy defeated the real Nazis, not the figments of your imagination.

You need to improve your Yiddish rhetoric, moshe. You're incompetent.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:48 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:45 amWhy did you evade every point there?

Because "You are a Nazi" isn't an argument.

Especially not after my grandpappy pulled yours from the concentration camps.

Especially not after my grandpappy defeated the real Nazis, not the figments of your imagination.

You need to improve your Yiddish rhetoric, moshe. You're incompetent.

I told you correctly that the banks are owned by almagamations of shareholders, not a cabal of Jews. Why did you write a bunch of weird shit about noticing stuff instead of just aknowledging your error?

I corrected your mistake about who runs the Fed and what their religion is, you ignred that too.

I asked you how you think the CCP is a race. It's a political party, how the fuck ycould it be a race? Your response, something about "all one race" that had nothing to do with the point.

You keep trying to insult me with accusations of jewishness, that's because you kind of are a bit of a nazi.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:25 am

Maia wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:18 amThe original tribe of the Angles spoke a Germanic language. Old English, as we call it today.

So it's Germanic then, not English, according to you.

Germanic is a linguistic term, and the English language is a Germanic language.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:03 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:48 amIt's exactly what it should be, for what it is couldn't be any other direction, else it would be where it isn't, which is never the case.

Notice that arrow is exactly where it should be, and couldn't be anywhere else.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:03 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:48 amIt's exactly what it should be, for what it is couldn't be any other direction, else it would be where it isn't, which is never the case.

The arrow is only a signpost.



Signposts never move.

They only point to nowhere, and never to themself, in the same way, the eye can never see itself. Nothing is apparently happening, or changing or declining or advancing or appearing to be better or worse, except in this conception, a story told by a fool, full of noise and fury, signifying nothing.

The economic philosophy of Milton Friedman has crippled the West.

Whilst it has created the environment for billionaires to thrive, this has led to mass inequality, the decline in access to healthcare, housing, and personal safety for the majority. ALl this whilst society has managed to blame ordinary people for their laziness; the superrich enjoy their yachts and other technical goodies secure in the knowledge that all you need to do to earn large sums, of money, and have that money grow, is to have large sums of money.
The only people that have to actually do work, are people who have no money.

Meanwhile, China and the other BRICS economies are growing.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:53 pm The economic philosophy of Milton Friedman has crippled the West.

Whilst it has created the environment for billionaires to thrive, this has led to mass inequality, the decline in access to healthcare, housing, and personal safety for the majority. ALl this whilst society has managed to blame ordinary people for their laziness; the superrich enjoy their yachts and other technical goodies secure in the knowledge that all you need to do to earn large sums, of money, and have that money grow, is to have large sums of money.
The only people that have to actually do work, are people who have no money.

Meanwhile, China and the other BRICS economies are growing.

We are bred for one purpose only, to work for money in order to live. We live to work, and work to live, that's just about our lot here on earth. Humanity is likened to an ultra super massive swarm of bees.



The queen's only job is to lay eggs and a drone's job is to mate with the queen. The worker bees are responsible for everything else: gathering nectar, guarding the hive and honey, caring for the queen and larvae, keeping the hive clean, and producing honey.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am Read the room, others argue that society *IS* getting worse.

So what? Some people argue that the Earth is flat.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am Because of your belief in "One" society.

That's not an over-generalisation. It's a fact. Borders are made up. People, goods, intellectual property and wealth moves across them.

Instead, you are conceptualising it as many separate societies so that you can cherry-pick the individual cases which justify your argument.
That's literally a logical fallacy. Over and above the fact that it amounts to confirmation bias.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am This is a philosophy forum and I'd like to be philosophical. I don't presume the objective standard is given. You tell me how "Society" rises and falls...or as you seem to argue, it simply doesn't fall...?

I am not arguing that. I am arguing about the general trend.

DESPITE any localized occurrences of raising; or falling.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:41 amYeah!

Annd we've seen a lot of objective data from me.
And a lot of feelings from you.

Because you haven't proven your case.

That's a non-sequitur. If evidence, facts and global trends over 2 centuries doesn't make the case - what will?!?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am So what if middle class "standard of living" goes up...in the West? This isn't what other people necessarily mean by rise or fall. And it certainly doesn't apply to everybody, by class, by culture, by religion, etc. Even, given your argument, people in this thread still disagree with you.

Nobody is saying it applies to everybody. That's why I am calling it a general trend; not a universal trend.

Do you understand the difference between general and universal; or are you desperately seearching for a strawman to cling onto?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:54 am Shall we take home ownership as the standard of living? Then, by that measure, it is declining.

No, we shouldn't. We should take having access to a residence (either via purchase, rental or social grants) as a standard of living.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:17 am There's no guarantee that human history "only goes forward"

Yes there is. Physics. The arrow of time.[/quote]
That's nonsense.
[/quote]
So physics is nonsense now?!?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:17 am A person's life can be subjectively *AND* objectively better, in the past.

How is that relevant to the general claim? Just because there are exceptions it doesn't mean that the general trend doesn't hold.

You are comitting the not all fallacy.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:17 am Read the title of the thread. It is a question. Those in the first pages already answered: "Decline". You are the minority position. So you should defend your position.

I am not the minority. I have 120 billion humans who have lived throughout history on my side. You have a handful of contrarian idiots on a forum.

I can dismiss the people who insist society is declining in the exact same manner I dismis Flat Earthers. You are wrong. No I will not waste my time pretending I have to defend my position against flat earthers.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:17 am Then we disagree, I think the journey is more important than the 'End'.

The journey painted by 5000 years of history is one of moral and social progress.

Your contrariannism really is running out of fuel.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:17 am I already made this argument: it is generally the upper-middle class and rich, that 'consistently' progress. Insuchthat, they do not suffer poverty, and continually enjoy All systemic progress, All conveniences, technologies, cultural improvements.

You did make it. And I pointed out that it's a stupid argument.

If that were true you are necessarily claiming that being poor today is no different (and most certainly not better) than being poor 5000 years ago.

You are insisting that that the criterion for poverty is objective and that it has remained unchanged for 5000 years.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:23 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:53 pm The economic philosophy of Milton Friedman has crippled the West.

Whilst it has created the environment for billionaires to thrive, this has led to mass inequality, the decline in access to healthcare, housing, and personal safety for the majority. ALl this whilst society has managed to blame ordinary people for their laziness; the superrich enjoy their yachts and other technical goodies secure in the knowledge that all you need to do to earn large sums, of money, and have that money grow, is to have large sums of money.
The only people that have to actually do work, are people who have no money.

Meanwhile, China and the other BRICS economies are growing.

We are bred for one purpose only, to work for money in order to live. We live to work, and work to live, that's just about our lot here on earth. Humanity is likened to an ultra super massive swarm of bees.



The queen's only job is to lay eggs and a drone's job is to mate with the queen. The worker bees are responsible for everything else: gathering nectar, guarding the hive and honey, caring for the queen and larvae, keeping the hive clean, and producing honey.

Such is the "civilized" world. But it could be otherwise, and our tech could release us from the drudgery, yet greed prevents this.

The "queens" of this world do not even lay eggs. THey just consume like parasites.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:58 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:23 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:53 pm The economic philosophy of Milton Friedman has crippled the West.

Whilst it has created the environment for billionaires to thrive, this has led to mass inequality, the decline in access to healthcare, housing, and personal safety for the majority. ALl this whilst society has managed to blame ordinary people for their laziness; the superrich enjoy their yachts and other technical goodies secure in the knowledge that all you need to do to earn large sums, of money, and have that money grow, is to have large sums of money.
The only people that have to actually do work, are people who have no money.

Meanwhile, China and the other BRICS economies are growing.

We are bred for one purpose only, to work for money in order to live. We live to work, and work to live, that's just about our lot here on earth. Humanity is likened to an ultra super massive swarm of bees.



The queen's only job is to lay eggs and a drone's job is to mate with the queen. The worker bees are responsible for everything else: gathering nectar, guarding the hive and honey, caring for the queen and larvae, keeping the hive clean, and producing honey.

Such is the "civilized" world. But it could be otherwise, and our tech could release us from the drudgery, yet greed prevents this.

The "queens" of this world do not even lay eggs. THey just consume like parasites.

Yes, the queens consume, they feed off of the parasites. That's why they give you free money, ( benefits ) so that you can breed more parasites into existence to make the queens more wealthier. No workers, nothing for the queens to feed off and get really drunk and fat on their own greed.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:19 am

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:46 pmFrom my frame of mind, in regard to moral and political value judgments, the rise and fall of "stories" -- East or West -- are rooted existentially in dasein. They are derived from the lives that we actually live out in particular worlds historically, culturally and [especially] in terms of our own uniquely personal experiences. Couple that with a world awash in contingency, chance and change and the Benjamin Button Syndrome and I now find myself "fractured and fragmented" pertaining to the "Fall of the West"?

On the other hand, some here in embracing one or another One True Path -- God, spirituality, ideology, deontology, assessment of Nature, etc., are convinced that the West really is in decline. Why? Because personally they don't like what they see around them.

I think we shall receive more 'objective' answers here on a philosophy forum, than any other.

I certainly don't expect a bunch of stogy scientists or religious fundamentalists to prove more than rhetorical fallacies.

At least philosophers can make better arguments, "beyond subjectivity" so-to-speak.

Okay, for the philosophers among us...note actual examples of that which you believe does confirm the fall of the West. How would you go about demonstrating it to others such that it does come closer to the objective truth rather than reflecting your own rooted existentially in dasein subjective prejudices.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:46 pmWhat should the world revolve around instead spiritually, morally, politically, philosophically...?

Go ahead, ask them.

Hope that helped.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:19 amI did ask...them, and you.

It has helped. Because so far I've seen no arguments for "WE'RE RISING TO THE TOP AND NOBODY WILL STOP US!!!" responses.

Well, here in America, any number of folks embracing Trump and MAGA will insist the only thing that stopped them from staying on top was a crooked election in 2020. But that in 2024 the crooks will be thumped, and no one will stop them from going all the way to...fascism?

Then the West shall rise again!

Their West.