Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:02 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:47 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:29 pm Jesus said,"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36)

And god gives you free will then drowns you in the lake of fire for not doing what he wants.

I am only telling you what the Word of God says. I am not protecting you from it, or apologizing for it, or excusing it to you. You can hear it, or you can reject it. That's not my business. My business is to tell you what it says.

And I've given you the reference, so you can check: that's what it says.

Only the word of god if god keeps contradicting himself. The Last gospel of St. John (whoever he was) is very different from the synoptic ones in which Christ does not claim divinity as he does in the former. One would think god would be god enough to known what he's talking about or claiming to be. There are four individual gospels each with its own message; not ONE composed of four from which theists pick whatever they find convenient to the situation as if it were all uniform without contradiction...of which there's a lot!

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:42 pm Only....

You've got several things wrong in a few short sentences, D. I could rattle off what's wrong with each of them. But it doesn't really matter. You're not raising them to be convinced; you're raising them to be oppositional.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God, says the Word. "Impossible." There's no "cynic's route to God," so you've made your choice. I can say nothing more that will be of any help to you, unless one day, that changes.

That's not today, clearly.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:52 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:42 pm Only....

You've got several things wrong in a few short sentences, D. I could rattle off what's wrong with each of them. But it doesn't really matter. You're not raising them to be convinced; you're raising them to be oppositional.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God, says the Word. "Impossible." There's no "cynic's route to God," so you've made your choice. I can say nothing more that will be of any help to you, unless one day, that changes.

That's not today, clearly.

Okay, show me where I'm wrong!

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:27 am Okay, show me where I'm wrong!

#1. You're wrong to think God doesn't exist.

That's your biggest, and the one you've got to deal with. The rest are all details.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:35 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:27 am Okay, show me where I'm wrong!

#1. You're wrong to think God doesn't exist.

That's your biggest, and the one you've got to deal with. The rest are all details.

I'm going by what is written in the gospels. Isn't that what you do?

In the synoptic ones there is no mention of Jesus claiming divinity whereas in the gospel of John, Jesus speaks of himself as a divine being having existed even before Abraham. It's impossible to believe that Mark, Matthew and Luke who preceded John would have omitted that slight detail of Christ's divinity in their gospels. These are obviously very different views of Jesus. The don't correlate.

As for "the rest are all details", it's precisely the details which create the complete picture. You say you can rattle off what's wrong with each argument made but haven't said how except to say I'm wrong in thinking god doesn't exist...and that's your explanation!

Must I believe god exists to question discrepancies in the NT?? Is that your precondition?

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:30 am Must I believe god exists to question discrepancies in the NT?? Is that your precondition?

It's not a conversation that has any value to you. You have no intention of changing your mind...you've declared that. So there really isn't much more to discuss.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:43 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:30 am Must I believe god exists to question discrepancies in the NT?? Is that your precondition?

It's not a conversation that has any value to you. You have no intention of changing your mind...you've declared that. So there really isn't much more to discuss.

In your own words this proves you only intended to preach but not debate.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:06 am In your own words this proves you only intended to preach but not debate.

What it shows is that a man has to "have ears to hear," as Christ said, or he will not hear.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:06 am In your own words this proves you only intended to preach but not debate.

What it shows is that a man has to "have ears to hear," as Christ said, or he will not hear.

The ears can hear anything! It's the brain, the mind which determines its value, its validity!

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:43 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:31 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:06 am In your own words this proves you only intended to preach but not debate.

What it shows is that a man has to "have ears to hear," as Christ said, or he will not hear.

The ears can hear anything! It's the brain, the mind which determines its value, its validity!

So that's where the real problem is; not in the ears themselves, but in the attitude of the percipient. Sounds right to me.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:02 pm I am only telling you what the Word of God says.

All words are sourced from the same place, namely, (the human brain) Including the word God. Words are not Gods word, words belong to no known thing, because known words are sourced from a place that is absolutely unknowable. The Creation of any known thing is unknowable, if the real actual source of all knowledge, or the creation of all things was able to be known, then a human brain could be made from scratch in a science lab. Or, the dna molecules from all dead human brains could be brought back to life again.

Human brain created God, because human brain is the only physical mechanism by which knowledge can be conceptually known. Physical matter being the only instrument available through which Knowledge can manifest. And the fact that knowledge is able to manifest as and through the human brain just means evolution developed this phenomena for strategic survival purposes unique to the human being. There's nothing divine or super-meta about this naturually occuring phenomena. The human story will die and probably extinct eventually along with every other living sentient creature, returning to the absolute nothingness ( non-awareness) from which they have all emerged.

Knowledge is an appearance only, it's here today, gone tomorrow. There is nothing eternal about any appearance. There is no room for any appearance to be eternal.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:02 pm I am only telling you what the Word of God says.

All words are sourced from the same place, namely, (the human brain) Including the word God.

So you say. So I refute.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:02 pm I am only telling you what the Word of God says.

All words are sourced from the same place, namely, (the human brain) Including the word God.

So you say. So I refute.

But you do not refute the image of God is a man called Jesus, who has a human brain, without which no word could he ever speak.

I think it about time humans would just be honest with themselves and face the actual real FACT of the origin of knowledge.

The truth is, a machine cannot know it's maker. Truth is death. And in death NOTHING IS KNOWN.

But you do not refute the image of God is a man called Jesus, who has a human brain...

...and a divine one, too. Christians believe Jesus is not mere "man," but the God-Man, of course. That's what the Incarnation means.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:19 pm

But you do not refute the image of God is a man called Jesus, who has a human brain...

...and a divine one, too. Christians believe Jesus is not mere "man," but the God-Man, of course. That's what the Incarnation means.

A God-Man is an idea formed of the human brain via a knowledge believed to be real within that mechanism.

No brain made the human brain and what it knows. All knowledge is a fictional story told by humans, believed to be real.

You can say anything you want ic, but it’ll still be just your personal story of what you want to believe to be real or true. And when you die, so will your story. That is why many authors do apparently appear. Authors of stories that are written and read by the unknowable...because anything known CANNOT in and of itself know itself because it only exists as a concept aka a fable.


The incarnation is a concept, in this conception.