"Free will was given to man by god."

[Immanuel Can]

I'm a deist. My god has issued no marching orders, so there's nuthin' for me to obey, and no deific punishment to fear.

There, some tobacco for you to put in your pipe.

Don't tell AV. She'll have a fit.

[henry quirk]

I'm a deist. My god has issued no marching orders, so there's nuthin' for me to obey, and no deific punishment to fear.

There, some tobacco for you to put in your pipe.

Don't tell AV. She'll have a fit.

She can seize up as she likes: I don't care ('oh, henry, the death fear has you by the testicles!')

[BardoXV]

I'm a deist. My god has issued no marching orders, so there's nuthin' for me to obey, and no deific punishment to fear.

There, some tobacco for you to put in your pipe.

Don't tell AV. She'll have a fit.

AV believes and posts a lot of things that most people don't really think about.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm a deist. My god has issued no marching orders, so there's nuthin' for me to obey, and no deific punishment to fear.

There, some tobacco for you to put in your pipe.

Don't tell AV. She'll have a fit.

AV believes and posts a lot of things that most people don't really think about.

There are good reasons why they "don't really think" about them. She's wrong...obviously, verifiably, repeatedly, wrong by personal account and by statistics, wrong in every reasonable metric, really -- but disinclined to recognize it. And on the issue of fear being the primary motive, she obviously is so possessed by her belief that she can't be talked out of it with any facts at all.

So at that point, there is really not much to be "thought about." She has nothing new, nothing credible, and nothing remotely plausible to offer that has not been debunked already. She's circling the drain, hanging on to her theory.

[BardoXV]

So AV is the same as a YEC and a flat Earther combined.

[Immanuel Can]

So AV is the same as a YEC and a flat Earther combined.

Well, in regard to her "fear" theory, she's utterly unshakeable in her belief, despite abundant evidence to the contrary. So I guess so.

[gaffo]

A mind will be eliminated by destroying your brain or otherwise causing it not to function.

A brain will be a lump of meat, without a mind. It will not function either.

Indeed.

------but your Religion lacks interest/comentary on non-humans.

do cats/dogs/worms with brains.......have minds (or spirits/souls).

they lack understanding in this life to accept your Christ for Salvation. so their fate is??????????????? (this is where your Faith lacks perspective, and Hinduism/Buddism may not (noting animal life/souls).

they lack a soul? they are just moving plants?

asking you as an Atheist to a christian.

[Immanuel Can]

do cats/dogs/worms with brains.......have minds (or spirits/souls).

I have no idea what the constitution of animals is, save that they are distinct from human beings, not being the subject of a separate creative act, and are not said to be at all in "the image of God." There is no talk of "animal sin" or of "animal salvation." There's never any mention of animals having either "soul" or "spirit." However, there is Biblical language about the larger creation, the whole Earth, around human beings being "redeemed" when human beings are.

What does that entail? I have no precise way of knowing, save that it's good.

[Belinda]

do cats/dogs/worms with brains.......have minds (or spirits/souls).

I have no idea what the constitution of animals is, save that they are distinct from human beings, not being the subject of a separate creative act, and are not said to be at all in "the image of God." There is no talk of "animal sin" or of "animal salvation." There's never any mention of animals having either "soul" or "spirit." However, there is Biblical language about the larger creation, the whole Earth, around human beings being "redeemed" when human beings are.

What does that entail? I have no precise way of knowing, save that it's good.

Descartes who believed minds were separate things from brains also believed animals other than men lacked minds and were automata. This belief although it accorded with Christianity was responsible for men having no guilt about cruelty to animals.

[Immanuel Can]

This belief although it accorded with Christianity...

No, it did not. Christianity holds that the natural world does not belong to man, but is held in stewardship by mankind, and mankind is accountable for managing it well or abusing it. Genesis 1.

[Dubious]

...which goes to show even god can screw up! But what the hell, since we invented it we can claim certain prerogatives.

[henry quirk]

...which goes to show even god can screw up! But what the hell, since we invented it we can claim certain prerogatives.

Yeah, free will was a big mistake. He shoulda stuck to bio-robots.

[Age]

do cats/dogs/worms with brains.......have minds (or spirits/souls).

I have no idea what the constitution of animals is, save that they are distinct from human beings, not being the subject of a separate creative act, and are not said to be at all in "the image of God." There is no talk of "animal sin" or of "animal salvation." There's never any mention of animals having either "soul" or "spirit." However, there is Biblical language about the larger creation, the whole Earth, around human beings being "redeemed" when human beings are.

What does that entail? I have no precise way of knowing, save that it's good.

If human beings are not animals, then what are they?

[Age]

This belief although it accorded with Christianity...

No, it did not. Christianity holds that the natural world does not belong to man, but is held in stewardship by mankind, and mankind is accountable for managing it well or abusing it. Genesis 1.

Well humankind at the moment when this is written has OBVIOUSLY failed in their stewardship duties.

And, being 'accountable' for the abuse they do, is being returned back on to them.

[Age]

...which goes to show even god can screw up! But what the hell, since we invented it we can claim certain prerogatives.

How did God supposedly "screw up"?

Human beings have FREE WILL, so that what WILL HAPPEN, comes about the way that IT WILL.