Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:41 pm**

seeds wrote:
Dubious wrote:
The raison d'être of Islam is the idolatry of the written word presumed sacred causing it to be severely literal, nonconformist and fundamentalist as if it were some ecumenical truth not to be negated without consequences...the implication being that idolatry is equally applicable to the written word as it is to any symbol.
....it just goes to show that no matter how much the adherents of Islam rail against any form of idolatry, in truth (if I am reading you properly), they have idolized the very words upon which Islam is founded.

You read me right. God is grounded to the written word which in practice reveals one of the most unique and intense forms of idolatry anathematizing all other forms of symbolization or spiritualization to even imagine such a being any other way. It amounts to the implosion of God within a single sacred text where the "Word" strives to make itself equal to that which it describes. Islam floats completely on the authority of those words. All other versions of credence are considered blasphemy except perhaps for a few dribblings of metaphor. In this sense, as I see it, Islam incorporates the near perfection of idolatry.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:29 pm**

Dubious wrote:God is grounded to the written word which in practice reveals one of the most unique and intense forms of idolatry anathematizing all other forms of symbolization or spiritualization to even imagine such a being any other way.

Fortunately, Ouzo exposes all religions for the institutional evil they represent.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:32 pm**

bobevenson wrote:
Dubious wrote:God is grounded to the written word which in practice reveals one of the most unique and intense forms of idolatry anathematizing all other forms of symbolization or spiritualization to even imagine such a being any other way.
Fortunately, Ouzo exposes all religions for the institutional evil they represent.

If only the world had more of these kind of cleansing agents the subterfuge of sacred texts proclaiming God would be eliminated!

Next up Ouzo(2) dissolving the entire complex of political lies, speeches and corruption, in effect, eliminating the entire rat's nest of self-stroking parasitical politicians and their bogus offspring.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:00 pm**

Dubious wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
Dubious wrote:God is grounded to the written word which in practice reveals one of the most unique and intense forms of idolatry anathematizing all other forms of symbolization or spiritualization to even imagine such a being any other way.
Fortunately, Ouzo exposes all religions for the institutional evil they represent.
If only the world had more of these kind of cleansing agents the subterfuge of sacred texts proclaiming God would be eliminated! Only religious false prophets promulgate texts as "sacred."
Next up Ouzo(2) dissolving the entire complex of political lies, speeches and corruption, in effect, eliminating the entire rat's nest of self-stroking parasitical politicians and their bogus offspring. That will be the responsibility of the AEP.

Posted: **Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:07 pm**

bobevenson wrote:
Dubious wrote:
bobevenson wrote: Fortunately, Ouzo exposes all religions for the institutional evil they represent.
If only the world had more of these kind of cleansing agents the subterfuge of sacred texts proclaiming God would be eliminated! Only religious false prophets promulgate texts as "sacred."
Next up Ouzo(2) dissolving the entire complex of political lies, speeches and corruption, in effect, eliminating the entire rat's nest of self-stroking parasitical politicians and their bogus offspring. That will be the responsibility of the AEP.

Fine! How long must we wait???

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:19 pm**

seeds wrote:
Dubious wrote:
The raison d'être of Islam is the idolatry of the written word presumed sacred causing it to be severely literal, nonconformist and fundamentalist as if it were some ecumenical truth not to be negated without consequences...the implication being that idolatry is equally applicable to the written word as it is to any symbol.
That is an excellent observation, Dubious, and it just goes to show that no matter how much the adherents of Islam rail against any form of idolatry, in truth (if I am reading you properly), they have idolized the very words upon which Islam is founded.

Again, it alludes to my earlier point of humans needing some form of intermediary representation of God’s level of being.

Indeed, if God truly exists, then it is safe to assume that any entity that is capable of creating and controlling a hundred-billion galaxies of suns and planets is so far above us in scope and consciousness that us - trying to fathom its level of existence - is like ants or amoebas trying to fathom our level of existence.
_______

A truth that lying priests and imams will never admit to.
They would lose their power to gain the money they collect for their lies. The con would die.

Regards
DL

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:56 pm**

Greatest I am wrote:
A truth that lying priests and imams will never admit to.
They would lose their power to gain the money they collect for their lies. The con would die.

Regards
DL

Hi DL,

I suggest that you might try to be a little more forgiving and empathetic when it comes to the beliefs of our fellow “amoebas.”

I am assuming that if you were to journey into the Amazonian jungles and encounter the strange and varying belief systems of the primitive tribes therein, you would understand the reason for their unenlightened status and not be so harsh with them.

In other words, you would not call their shamans and witch doctors, etc. “liars,” because you would understand the delusional nature of their unique situation.

The point is that you need to offer the same charitable understanding to the members of the larger tribes of humans who are just as innocent in their acceptance of their tribal delusions as are the Amazonians.

Don’t get me wrong, for I do indeed share in your desire and enthusiasm to shed light on the absurdity of certain aspects of antiquated belief systems.

However, I do not think that the vitriolic way in which you attack the believers is the best way to go about changing things – especially if you do not offer something better (in spiritual terms) to replace the world’s religions.

With that in mind, if you could indeed dismantle the spiritual belief systems of billions of humans on earth (who in no way will ever accept a materialistic explanation for their existence), then what do you offer as a replacement for that which you seek to destroy?
_______

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:17 pm**

seeds wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
A truth that lying priests and imams will never admit to.
They would lose their power to gain the money they collect for their lies. The con would die.

Regards
DL
Hi DL,

I suggest that you might try to be a little more forgiving and empathetic when it comes to the beliefs of our fellow “amoebas.”

I am assuming that if you were to journey into the Amazonian jungles and encounter the strange and varying belief systems of the primitive tribes therein, you would understand the reason for their unenlightened status and not be so harsh with them.

In other words, you would not call their shamans and witch doctors, etc. “liars,” because you would understand the delusional nature of their unique situation.

The point is that you need to offer the same charitable understanding to the members of the larger tribes of humans who are just as innocent in their acceptance of their tribal delusions as are the Amazonians.

Don’t get me wrong, for I do indeed share in your desire and enthusiasm to shed light on the absurdity of certain aspects of antiquated belief systems.

However, I do not think that the vitriolic way in which you attack the believers is the best way to go about changing things – especially if you do not offer something better (in spiritual terms) to replace the world’s religions.

With that in mind, if you could indeed dismantle the spiritual belief systems of billions of humans on earth (who in no way will ever accept a materialistic explanation for their existence), then what do you offer as a replacement for that which you seek to destroy?
_______

I am a Gnostic Christian and that is what I offer to those who put morals ahead of their delusions that cause them to follow immoral Gods.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

I am not good with ridicule but am strong on truth, logic and reason and if that, along with the right morals does not work, then the reader is lost to his delusional thinking.

I agree that my delivery is not always as loving as it should be but things are what they are.

If I showed the pity I feel for the delusional, that would likely turn them off just as much.

Regards
DL

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:38 pm**

Greatest I am wrote: I am a Gnostic Christian and that is what I offer to those who put morals ahead of their delusions that cause them to follow immoral Gods.
Regards
DL

No you are not. You are a bullshitter who does not know what A Gnostic is.

You just have a silly literalist understanding of the world and are arrogant enough to pretend, like every other dumb Christian that you "KNOW" Christ.

You do not.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:21 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: I am a Gnostic Christian and that is what I offer to those who put morals ahead of their delusions that cause them to follow immoral Gods.
Regards
DL
No you are not. You are a bullshitter who does not know what A Gnostic is.

You just have a silly literalist understanding of the world and are arrogant enough to pretend, like every other dumb Christian that you "KNOW" Christ.

You do not.

This last is true. The rest is off the mark.

God and the Christ mind is what we are to seek perpetually. Jesus said to seek God and not to seek him.

I think he would have said that God should be defined as the best rules and laws to live a good life as those are what he was seeking.

Regards
DL

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:39 pm**

Greatest I am wrote: I am a Gnostic Christian and that is what I offer to those who put morals ahead of their delusions that cause them to follow immoral Gods.

Someone as intelligent as you should be able to understand that no one is following “immoral Gods” in any literal sense.

For the most part, people (the “delusionees”) are simply following the blindly contrived “guesses” that attempt to describe something that, as I mentioned earlier, is so far above us in scope and consciousness that we are like amoebas trying to visualize and describe the human level of consciousness.

I cannot stress enough the importance of that particular metaphor because it suggests that just as we humans vastly ascend above amoebas in consciousness and in the ability to manipulate the fabric of reality (create), likewise, God ascends above us.

Again, that is why humans need “intermediary visualizations” of God to help us deal with the tremendous chasm that exists between our level of being and that of God’s level of being (not to mention the unfathomableness of a transcendent and incorporeal context of existence).

Unfortunately (and as this relates to the thread topic), over time, our “guesses” tend to become viewed as reifications of some aspect of the ineffable entity they are attempting to visualize and thus become the “idols” (the Koran, for example), and any defamation of the idol is treated as though one has literally defiled God himself.

Greatest I am wrote: Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

Do you think it is wise to invoke the words of a slave owner when it comes to morality and deep spiritual matters?

Besides, ridicule is not the “only weapon” that can be used against unintelligible propositions, for it would seem to me that “intelligible” (logical) counter-propositions would be a better weapon.

That being said, would you mind giving us a brief synopsis of what your “Gnostic Christianity” entails?
_______

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:01 pm**

seeds wrote:
Besides, ridicule is not the “only weapon” that can be used against unintelligible propositions, for it would seem to me that “intelligible” (logical) counter-propositions would be a better weapon.

Sometimes, but unintelligible propositions - mostly made by the less intelligent - are not usually amenable to be corrected by its opposite. This much is clear on Philosophy Forums.

Posted: **Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:51 pm**

Greatest I am wrote:
God and the Christ mind is what we are to seek perpetually. Jesus said to seek God and not to seek him.

I think he would have said that God should be defined as the best rules and laws to live a good life as those are what he was seeking.

Regards
DL

GNOSTIC:a prominent heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partly of pre-Christian origin. Gnostic doctrine taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:45 pm**

seeds wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: I am a Gnostic Christian and that is what I offer to those who put morals ahead of their delusions that cause them to follow immoral Gods.
Someone as intelligent as you should be able to understand that no one is following “immoral Gods” in any literal sense.

For the most part, people (the “delusionees”) are simply following the blindly contrived “guesses” that attempt to describe something that, as I mentioned earlier, is so far above us in scope and consciousness that we are like amoebas trying to visualize and describe the human level of consciousness.

I cannot stress enough the importance of that particular metaphor because it suggests that just as we humans vastly ascend above amoebas in consciousness and in the ability to manipulate the fabric of reality (create), likewise, God ascends above us.

Again, that is why humans need “intermediary visualizations” of God to help us deal with the tremendous chasm that exists between our level of being and that of God’s level of being (not to mention the unfathomableness of a transcendent and incorporeal context of existence).

Unfortunately (and as this relates to the thread topic), over time, our “guesses” tend to become viewed as reifications of some aspect of the ineffable entity they are attempting to visualize and thus become the “idols” (the Koran, for example), and any defamation of the idol is treated as though one has literally defiled God himself.

Greatest I am wrote: Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
Do you think it is wise to invoke the words of a slave owner when it comes to morality and deep spiritual matters?

Besides, ridicule is not the “only weapon” that can be used against unintelligible propositions, for it would seem to me that “intelligible” (logical) counter-propositions would be a better weapon.

That being said, would you mind giving us a brief synopsis of what your “Gnostic Christianity” entails?
_______

Logic and reason have limited use when dealing with the mentally handicapped such as those who believe in the supernatural without evidence.

"Someone as intelligent as you should be able to understand that no one is following “immoral Gods” in any literal sense."

True but to deny that they are following the thinking of immoral Gods would be wrong. Unless you do not believe in equality under the law and like genocidal children murdering Gods and think that to be moral.

--------

To your last which asks about what a Gnostic Christian is.

A Gnostic Christian will know how to read these that the Church never quotes.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note the more Eastern flavor that suits an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist Gnostic Christian more than the pathetic salvific Christ that Christianity immorally want to ride as their scapegoat into heaven.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

----------

Further.

I am a Gnostic Christian, Our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:04 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
God and the Christ mind is what we are to seek perpetually. Jesus said to seek God and not to seek him.

I think he would have said that God should be defined as the best rules and laws to live a good life as those are what he was seeking.

Regards
DL
GNOSTIC:a prominent heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partly of pre-Christian origin.

True. Please remember that all religions begin as heretical sects.

I have been trying to prove that we were the Chrestians whose writings were stolen by Christians. I think we go back to Jesus' day. I have yet to succeed in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... At-PAkgqls

Gnostic doctrine taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit.

False.

We created our myths to put against the Christian myths, for the sake of debate and discussion, before Christianity stupidly became an idol worshiping cult. We do not read our myths literally as we, unlike literalist and fundamental Christians, know they are only fiction. Gnostic Christians do not have any belief in the supernatural. We are not brain dead not do we wish to live under some Gods tyranny.

"redemption of the human spirit"

Redemption is described as an act of redeeming or atoning for a fault or mistake.

I would not use the word redemption. We seek the enlightenment of our minds and spirit more than atoning for being as created by nature.

Enlightenment is a learning process and we do not say that children need to atone for not yet being educated. The only salvation we seek is to be saved from being too stupid or indoctrinated in fantasy and the supernatural to not be able to discern the evolving perfection of the reality around us.

We live in the best of all possible worlds and the astute will see this as heaven just as the old Gnostic Christians did.

Regards
DL

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