Bobevenson's AEP manifesto

[bobevenson]

Bob, your faith in financial institutions and their ability to bail everyone out in the event of the collapse of the financial markets they depend on, is as touching as it is naîve.

Under the AEP, there can never be a financial crisis since only banks are permitted to issue money based on certificates of property, which the money represents, and only banks can issue money, never the government, and there will never be government bailouts to anyone for any reason.

[bobevenson]

These items fall under government's social integration responsibility and are covered by taxes.

[Obvious Leo]

What did you have in mind by way of taxation policy under the AEP, Bob? In recent decades the US tax code has been unfairly (and surreptitiously) re-written to favour large corporations and hedge funds and this has caused a major imbalance in the revenue stream which flows to government from the business sector. It has disproportionately, and punitively, disadvantaged the small business sector which has always been the major driver of innovation, jobs and economic growth. Meanwhile the burgeoning financial sector has focused almost exclusively on investment in complex trading schemes, currency arbitrage and stock buybacks which escape the taxation net while contributing nothing to the economy except enormous tax-free bonuses for the pirates who broker them.

Fell free to ignore this question if you don't know what I'm talking about, Bob. I have no illusions about your economic literacy.

[bobevenson]

What did you have in mind by way of taxation policy under the AEP, Bob? In recent decades the US tax code has been unfairly (and surreptitiously) re-written to favour large corporations and hedge funds and this has caused a major imbalance in the revenue stream which flows to government from the business sector. It has disproportionately, and punitively, disadvantaged the small business sector which has always been the major driver of innovation, jobs and economic growth. Meanwhile the burgeoning financial sector has focused almost exclusively on investment in complex trading schemes, currency arbitrage and stock buybacks which escape the taxation net while contributing nothing to the economy except enormous tax-free bonuses for the pirates who broker them.

Fell free to ignore this question if you don't know what I'm talking about, Bob. I have no illusions about your economic literacy.

As a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic, I can tell you that the only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value. All other forms of taxation are improper and should be immediately abolished, including income tax, sales tax, and the thousands of other taxes. Furthermore, there can be no property exemptions, such as property owned by nonprofit organizations. All property must be taxed at the same market-value rate, regardless of who owns it or the nature of the property itself, whether it be natural property or manufactured property.

[Obvious Leo]

It's certainly a very bolshie and egalitarian idea to tax people solely on their net worth, Bob, but I very much doubt that you'll get corporate America to buy it because this would mean that the richer you are the more tax you'll pay. That is a very un-American ideology, Bob, because that's the purest from of Marxism imaginable. However "from each according to his means" is only half of the bolshevik dialectic. What did you have planned for the other half, this being "to each according to his needs"? Do you have a methodology in place to redistribute the wealth of your nation and what role will the military take in the execution of your plan? You'll no doubt be aware that the plutocracy will not take this lying down and they still hold all the levers of power.

[bobevenson]

It's certainly a very bolshie and egalitarian idea to tax people solely on their net worth, Bob, but I very much doubt that you'll get corporate America to buy it because this would mean that the richer you are the more tax you'll pay. That is a very un-American ideology, Bob, because that's the purest from of Marxism imaginable. However "from each according to his means" is only half of the bolshevik dialectic. What did you have planned for the other half, this being "to each according to his needs"? Do you have a methodology in place to redistribute the wealth of your nation and what role will the military take in the execution of your plan? You'll no doubt be aware that the plutocracy will not take this lying down and they still hold all the levers of power.

No, you don't understand. Net worth isn't taxed, money isn't taxed, stocks and bonds aren't taxed, only property is taxed. If your only goal in life is to increase your wealth, you can become a billionaire and pay no taxes. All you have to do is live in a cave with no possessions.

[mickthinks]

Mick: Bob, your faith in financial institutions and their ability to bail everyone out in the event of the collapse of the financial markets they depend on, is as touching as it is naîve.
Bob: Under the AEP, there can never be a financial crisis since only banks are permitted to issue money based on certificates of property, which the money represents, ...

You are still trying to change the subject, Bob, which was whether you believe that nothing went wrong with the free investment banking market in the lead up to the global financial crisis, and indeed, whether you deny that there was a global financial crisis.

What you seem to be saying is that the investment banking market was, and still is, fundamentally fraudulent because the money they lend out is not limited to the total value of all certificates of property. And that this destabilising market freedom to issue unlimited money is the fault of our governments. Is that what you believe?

[bobevenson]

I'm talking about how money would be controlled under the AEP. There would be no bailouts to anybody for anything, and any so-called crises would have to be settled by the people or companies involved. If there is any fraudulent activity by any financial institutions, that's a different story, and would be dealt with by the government as any other kind of fraud is handled. Fraudulent activity of any kind cannot be tolerated.

[Arising_uk]

As a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic, I can tell you that the only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value. All other forms of taxation are improper and should be immediately abolished, including income tax, sales tax, and the thousands of other taxes. Furthermore, there can be no property exemptions, such as property owned by nonprofit organizations. All property must be taxed at the same market-value rate, regardless of who owns it or the nature of the property itself, whether it be natural property or manufactured property.

What size of administration do you envisage to collect such a tax? How intrusive into one's personal affairs will it have to be?

[bobevenson]

As a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic, I can tell you that the only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value. All other forms of taxation are improper and should be immediately abolished, including income tax, sales tax, and the thousands of other taxes. Furthermore, there can be no property exemptions, such as property owned by nonprofit organizations. All property must be taxed at the same market-value rate, regardless of who owns it or the nature of the property itself, whether it be natural property or manufactured property.

What size of administration do you envisage to collect such a tax? How intrusive into one's personal affairs will it have to be?

First of all, since there is only a single tax replacing the thousands upon thousands of other taxes, the amount of administration would be a small fraction of current manpower devoted to improper taxation. Taxes would be paid on a monthly basis like utility bills. Yes, there would be auditing and updating of property and market value, but the AEP system is streamlined in comparison to the current system.

[Arising_uk]

You can shout all you like bob but you're, as usual, not answer the question.

Figures bob, numbers. What size is the current administration? How much does it cost? You must know this if you are to assert that your administration will be more streamlined. So what size will your administration be? What will it cost? Especially since you propose to aduit every citizen on a monthly basis for every bit of 'property' the own. How big will your tax-avoidance wing be?

[bobevenson]

You can shout all you like bob but you're, as usual, not answer the question. Figures bob, numbers. What size is the current administration? How much does it cost? You must know this if you are to assert that your administration will be more streamlined. So what size will your administration be? What will it cost? Especially since you propose to aduit every citizen on a monthly basis for every bit of 'property' the own. How big will your tax-avoidance wing be?

My God, you're pathetically dense. Taxes are on a monthly basis, but auditing is not. Use your fucking head once in a while. Unfortunately, you are unable to visualize that the total administration of the AEP tax system will be far less complex and expensive than the current one. I won't go into detail with you based on my utter failure in trying to teach you how to play the simple game of Ouzo.

[Arising_uk]

My God, you're pathetically dense. Taxes are paid on a monthly basis, but auditing is not. Use your fucking head once in a while. Unfortunately, you are unable to visualize that the total administration of the AEP tax system will be far less complex and expensive than the current one. I won't even attempt to discuss this with you based on my utter failure in trying to teach you how to play the simple game of Ouzo.

Shouting won't help you bobby.

Is it that I want you to actually describe your 'vision' that is upsetting you because when you have to try and tell a punter how your system works in detail compared to what we've got you can't?

So far you've shouted loads and not given one detail about how much this will cost, how many staff it will take, etc, etc. Start with the simple bit then, how many staff do you envisage it will take to audit every citizens property given your definition of property is everything I own down to the pencils upon my table.

[Obvious Leo]

What about intellectual property, Bob? How do you propose to set about assigning a market value to that? I know the US is infested with lawyers but I doubt that you'll have enough lawyers and courts to deal with all the litigation your crackpot scheme will generate.

[bobevenson]

What about intellectual property, Bob? How do you propose to set about assigning a market value to that? I know the US is infested with lawyers but I doubt that you'll have enough lawyers and courts to deal with all the litigation your crackpot scheme will generate.

Calling the words of a prophet a crackpot scheme instead of a divinely inspired utterance pretty much covers where you're coming from. While intellectual property has value, it does not have intrinsic market value. For instance, the legal right to make and sell Coca-Cola certainly has value and could be sold for a lot of money, but it has no intrinsic market value. Only a bottle of Coke has intrinsic market value.