Philosophy Now Forum

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:17 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:15 pm
God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

There is only ever one truth about that, Gary...and every religious person, and every secular person, at least all those who are behaving rationally, knows it, too.

And are there grounds for your speculation? What makes you think that any of us knows squat about God?

I know that God is not the ground of being.

Not sure what "ground of being" means, but as far as I know, God could be a number of things depending on who a person asks.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:49 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:17 pm
And are there grounds for your speculation? What makes you think that any of us knows squat about God?

I know that God is not the ground of being.

Not sure what "ground of being" means, but as far as I know, God could be a number of things depending on who a person asks.

Google is your friend. Highlight and search:

'The "ground of being" is a philosophical and theological concept often associated with Paul Tillich' etc.

It is the ultimate thing that God would be.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:53 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:49 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:34 pm
I know that God is not the ground of being.

Not sure what "ground of being" means, but as far as I know, God could be a number of things depending on who a person asks.

Google is your friend. Highlight and search:

'The "ground of being" is a philosophical and theological concept often associated with Paul Tillich' etc.

It is the ultimate thing that God would be.

Should I be aware that you were referring to Tillich's phrase? Really, I cannot figure out half of your posts. They seem nonsensical given the posts they are in response to.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:17 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:15 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 2:58 pm

I think the point she may be making is that every culture interprets God differently, including some believing in pantheism and some in atheism. Who's to say that Christians have it all correct and no one else does? And which sect of Christianity has it most correct?

God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

There is only ever one truth about that, Gary...and every religious person, and every secular person, at least all those who are behaving rationally, knows it, too.

And are there grounds for your speculation?

There's no speculation. Truth is truth. Truth always wins...over perspective, over culture, over prejudice, over wishes, over preferences...at the end of the day, truth is always the only thing that is left standing.

What makes you think that any of us knows squat about God?

We don't. Not unless God reveals Himself, as He is pleased to do. Without that, none of us would have a clue.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:15 pm God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

There is only ever one truth about that, Gary...and every religious person, and every secular person, at least all those who are behaving rationally, knows it, too.

God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.
restated as six statements
God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong. You may be wrong. God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.
reordered according to rules of logic
I may be wrong, God says. Whatever He says is right. You may be wrong. God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.
highlighting the first
I may be wrong, God says. Whatever He says is right. You may be wrong. God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

Do you accept that the first statement is TRUE? (it was your statement, and the rest of us accept it as true of ourselves)
If so, on what basis are you asking us to accept the next five as true?

Well, the remaining five...they are somewhat rewritten by yourself, I note. I'm not sure I want to defend your wording. I wonder why you didn't confine yourself to quoting accurately. But I'll put it my own way, and still answer the question.

God is always right. Human beings are often wrong. God is never wrong, and is never anything but what He is.

Now, what is your question about that?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 6:20 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:17 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:15 pm
God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

There is only ever one truth about that, Gary...and every religious person, and every secular person, at least all those who are behaving rationally, knows it, too.

And are there grounds for your speculation?

There's no speculation. Truth is truth. Truth always wins...over perspective, over culture, over prejudice, over wishes, over preferences...at the end of the day, truth is always the only thing that is left standing.

What makes you think that any of us knows squat about God?

We don't. Not unless God reveals Himself, as He is pleased to do. Without that, none of us would have a clue.

Then how do you know that God even says anything that we humans could comprehend? "Truth is truth" doesn't cut it.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 8:54 am

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Aug 31, 2025 8:06 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 31, 2025 4:26 pm
The way I figure it …

Since all those non-Christian heathens are condemned to hell because they have not received the word of God, then as a Christian, isn’t it your duty to offer the word of God to them, so that through free will, their inner beings that crave redemption will have the God-given choice to be free in this life, and the next? Why yes, it is, it is your Christian duty to be such an agent of God. S.D.G.

What’s wrong with that?

When push comes to shove, most Christians - (excluding IC) - will admit that any person who never actually heard the "word of God" (i.e., the Christian "gospel")...

(such as, for example, the members of some isolated island or jungle tribe of humans, or an infant who dies shortly after being born, etc.)

...will not be condemned to hell by God, for that would seem utterly unfair of God to do so.

And setting aside the obvious point/fact that it would be infinitely evil and unfair of God to mercilessly torture a defenseless soul in some hellish dimension of reality for ETERNITY,...

...the other obvious point is that the less you hear or know about Christianity (the best being absolutely "nothing") then the better off your chances will be of avoiding a grim judgment.

So, the incredible irony is that if Christians would simply shut up and stop spreading the "word of God," then, by reason of the "fairness factor" that most Christians agree that God should abide by and uphold, EVERYONE will be "saved" from the fires of hell.
_______

Yes, but you explain people who love. People who are governed not by love but by fear have distorted the message of love . Some Christians and other religionists and seculars such as Trump, Putin, Hitler, Netanyahu, and assorted terrorists are governed by fear.

One of the most obvious (and reasonable) accusations that can be levied against me is that I am guilty of cherry-picking the things I like about Christianity,...

(for example, that humans are the literal “offspring” [children/progeny] of God)

...while rejecting the things that I don’t like...

(for example, the concept of Hell).

I know I’ve spoken of this before,...

...however, when it comes to the concept of Hell, the question that so-called “Christians” must ask themselves is that assuming you pass muster by accepting Jesus as your personal savior and have thus been deemed “good and holy” enough to make it into Heaven,...

...what kind of unthinkably dark and evil level of consciousness will you acquire after entering Heaven that will allow you to not give one whit that billions of your fellow humans…

(which will no doubt include some of those whom you loved dearly while on earth)

...will be writhing in unimaginable pain and agony in the fires of Hell,...

...not just for a day, or a week, or a month, or a year,...

...but for trillions of years on into Eternity?

Would a father or a mother not attempt to move heaven and earth to save their child from some sadistic madman who kidnapped her and is raping and torturing her?

Yet, apparently, the occupants of the “Christian” Heaven will not only be complacent and accepting of the torture of their very own children and loved ones on a scale and degree that defies imagining,...

...but, incredibly, they will be worshipping the very person (Jesus) who is, in fact, the sadistic madman who is doing the torturing of those whom his worshiper’s love.

Clearly, no one can make any sense of such a twisted state of affairs.

Why?

Because there is no Hell (Christian or otherwise).

Other than some horrible (but temporary) areas here on earth,...

(Gaza, for one, and perhaps Trump’s diaper as another)

…the concept of Hell is total nonsense!
_______

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:03 pm

promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:02 pm Would it be cool if i put my hand on your shoulder and said "go with god, my son" or would that be kinda gay?

I don't know. You could try it, and we'll both find out.

No, no, better to roundly avoid that one.

Now I think it would be cool from say a few feet back.

“Go with God and sign up for the fucking 32-Week Email Course!” would be best of route.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 6:35 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:03 pm

promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:02 pm Would it be cool if i put my hand on your shoulder and said "go with god, my son" or would that be kinda gay?

I don't know. You could try it, and we'll both find out.

No, no, better to roundly avoid that one.

Now I think it would be cool from say a few feet back.

“Go with God and sign up for the fucking 32-Week Email Course!” would be best of route.

If it's an email course on fucking, then I may sign up. How much?

God says. Whatever He says is right. I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but God is never wrong. He is who He is, regardless of local tastes.

There is only ever one truth about that, Gary...and every religious person, and every secular person, at least all those who are behaving rationally, knows it, too.

Actually when you say “rationally” you mean “reasoning mathematically.” The premise “God” asserts an existence. Unless the god morphs from manifestation of being to manifestation of being, it stands to mathematical reason that “God can only be what God is”.

(God this is juvenile).

But the God revealed in Christian scripture is a picture developed by a specific people. You could describe people as “lenses”. And different people have and use varying lenses. God may indeed remain constant, and may have some fixed being and personality. But it does not stand to reason it is Yahweh.

Theologically — I mean in theology’s development — people I think come to understand this basic fact. The more mature they are, the more clear it becomes.

It has many superlative features, and a few less so, but I think Vedanta (a synthesis of historical theology and metaphysics of India) has the most “breadth” in the sense of Belinda’s “width”.

Naturally, any such religious philosophy would be anathema to one such as Immanuel.

Any view that dethrones Yahweh can only be a satanically inspired idea … leading one straight to the shelves of a living hell.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:57 pm Really, I cannot figure out half of your posts. They seem nonsensical given the posts they are in response to.

Ouch, Martin! That is going to leave a mark.

Have you ever considered showing basic respect by 1) ordering your “thoughts” before they fly out like a swarm of locusts, and 2) communicating clearly so that you can be understood?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 7:04 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:57 pm Really, I cannot figure out half of your posts. They seem nonsensical given the posts they are in response to.

Ouch, Martin! That is going to leave a mark.

Have you ever considered showing basic respect by 1) ordering your “thoughts” before they fly out like a swarm of locusts, and 2) communicating clearly so that you can be understood?

Does the course on fucking include demonstrations or small group "exercises"?

You have a pet don’t you?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 7:17 pm You have a pet don’t you?

Wow! Guess I won't be taking your email course, then. Sorry.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 6:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 6:20 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:17 pm

And are there grounds for your speculation?

There's no speculation. Truth is truth. Truth always wins...over perspective, over culture, over prejudice, over wishes, over preferences...at the end of the day, truth is always the only thing that is left standing.

What makes you think that any of us knows squat about God?

We don't. Not unless God reveals Himself, as He is pleased to do. Without that, none of us would have a clue.

Then how do you know that God even says anything that we humans could comprehend? "Truth is truth" doesn't cut it.

So...your supposition would have to be that what we call "God" was unable to do a simple thing that we human beings do quite regularly -- that is, to speak intelligibly? Because if you don't assume that, then there's clearly no problem at all.

But let me also add this level of response, too: the same God who made the human mind would then have to be assumed to be incapable of making any reliable impression upon the mind He created. But which is the greater 'miracle,' if we can use that word: to make an impression on a mind, or to have created the very mind on which the impression is being made? Surely it's the latter that is the harder achievement. So if God made man's mind, it would be absurd to suppose Him incapable of making a correct impression upon that same mind, would it not?

Surely, then, God must be intelligible. And if He exists, and is God, and has spoken, as some of us believe He has, then surely there's no difficulty in Him making himself understood -- at least, certainly no greater difficulty than in the process of creating a mind in the first place.

So we should expect that somewhere God has spoken, and spoken clearly. Whether or not men want to listen when God speaks...well, that's a different question, of course.

Not for nothing did Jesus so often repeat, "He who has ears, let him hear." The message has been spoken. But not everybody has ears for it.