Philosophy Now Forum

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Beethoven had more balls and more courage in musical composition with the first phrase of his fourth symphony than Mozart had his whole musical career.

Mozart was an effete ponce writing empty headed dance music for brain dead courtiers, and inbred monarchs and aristos.

Beethoven was a man of the enlightenment, struggling with a major disability. Mozart was just not on the same page.

They are completely different composers. You don't have to hate cats just because you like dogs.

I love dogs and hate cats. It just the way it is.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: If any thing it is about class, not gender.

Music is music. Political agendas don't belong there. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.

Music is music.

And this is sooo 'chintzy': NOT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoR4jeB6OI0

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Music is music. Political agendas don't belong there. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.

Music is music.

Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

Shall I start with National Anthems, move on to some examples of sixties protest songs, then talk about punk rock, and then demonstrate kindergarten songs designed to instil social ideologies.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

Whoop-de-do. Artists are influenced by art!! Fucking hell!!!
STOP PRESS!!

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

Shall I start with National Anthems, move on to some examples of sixties protest songs, then talk about punk rock, and then demonstrate kindergarten songs designed to instil social ideologies.

You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a rat's arse what 'class' Mozart was, or Beethoven, or what their political beliefs were. Bach was a religious nut. Doesn't stop me adoring his music.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

Whoop-de-do. Artists are influenced by art!! Fucking hell!!!
STOP PRESS!!

Now who needs their irony cap?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

Shall I start with National Anthems, move on to some examples of sixties protest songs, then talk about punk rock, and then demonstrate kindergarten songs designed to instil social ideologies.

You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a rat's arse what 'class' Mozart was, or Beethoven, or what their political beliefs were. Bach was a religious nut. Doesn't stop me adoring his music.

So do you withdraw your silly comment?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

Whoop-de-do. Artists are influenced by art!! Fucking hell!!!
STOP PRESS!!

Now who needs their irony cap?

let's hope you understand what you typed.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

Shall I start with National Anthems, move on to some examples of sixties protest songs, then talk about punk rock, and then demonstrate kindergarten songs designed to instil social ideologies.

You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a rat's arse what 'class' Mozart was, or Beethoven, or what their political beliefs were. Bach was a religious nut. Doesn't stop me adoring his music.

So do you withdraw your silly comment?

Why would I do that? I'm always right. When I studied analysis we weren't analysing their frigging political beliefs. I don't think there's any such thing as a 'left-wing chord progression'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU0pY0VaKkE

Listen to this. It might relax you after being arse-whipped by Dubious and me.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:Mentioned this before, though not in this thread. I like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, et al well enough, but I like classical much, much more once we get to the late 19th century and beyond--once later Wagner, Mussorgsky, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, etc. started opening up the harmonic, melodic, rhythmic, textural, structural, etc. palettes a lot more. Of course, there were earlier precursors, such as Beethoven's Große Fuge, but it took awhile for that sort of adventurousness to gel.

They also had a major advantage in new technologies in music. I like the "Romantics" but still consider Beethoven to be unsurpassed.

Did you see John Eliot Gardiner Playing the Fifth with original late 18thC instruments? I was glorious but shows how different things were back then.

I've heard a lot of period instrument stuff (and I've enjoyed it quite a bit), but I'm not sure if I've heard the Fifth on period instruments. I'll look for that.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.

Couldn't disagree more with that.

Also, I love cats and don't care for dogs.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

I definitely wouldn't say that no music (or art) is political, or that it shouldn't be or anything like that (although personally I don't care about that aspect). What I disagree with is "All art is political."

If you're just saying that some people might read political content into any arbitrary work, though, I'd not quibble with that. Some people might do that.

Are you one of those people who pays a lot of attention to lyrics, by the way? For the vast majority of music I listen to that has lyrics, I pay very little attention to lyrics.

Terrapin Station wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.

Couldn't disagree more with that.

Would you care to furnish some examples?

Terrapin Station wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Do I need to make a list for you of all the obviously political music? Then move on to less obviously political music, then to music that is political in spite of its self. Or are you going to withdraw your ill considered statement that politics has no place in music?

I definitely wouldn't say that no music (or art) is political, or that it shouldn't be or anything like that (although personally I don't care about that aspect). What I disagree with is "All art is political."

If you're just saying that some people might read political content into any arbitrary work, though, I'd not quibble with that. Some people might do that.

Are you one of those people who pays a lot of attention to lyrics, by the way? For the vast majority of music I listen to that has lyrics, I pay very little attention to lyrics.

Would I be right in thinking that you consider "politics" to be something you do in a booth every four years with a pen?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.

Couldn't disagree more with that.

Would you care to furnish some examples?

Just about every song/piece I've ever written, every painting I've ever done, any fiction I've ever written, for one.