Philosophy Now Forum

As Dubious pointed out, Bach was barely known in his own lifetime, so there's no reason to assume Purcell would have been well-known outside England, or even IN England. Composers weren't exactly the rock stars of their time (that would have been the castrati).Of course, Mozart was a childy prodigy who was paraded around Europe by his father, so he was famous at a young age.

Dubious wrote: the idiot in Amadeus (likely your source) doesn't exist in those letters and neither could a character like that have written the music Mozart wrote even if he possessed some of his talent.

That portrayal was an abomination. It even defames poor Salieri, practically accusing the man of murder.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dubious wrote: the idiot in Amadeus (likely your source) doesn't exist in those letters and neither could a character like that have written the music Mozart wrote even if he possessed some of his talent.

That portrayal was an abomination. It even defames poor Salieri, practically accusing the man of murder.

Salieri was no Mozart or Haydn but much of his music contains considerable talent worth listening to even now. There should more of it in the catalog. He was also highly regarded by Beethoven and a teacher of Schubert who had fond memories of him.

Here's one of the last 'chintzy' little pieces Mozart wrote before death preempted the rest of what might have been:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KUDs8KJc_c

...and this piece belongs to one of the three most powerful and profound short funeral elegies in all of music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFlNAl7HQQ

...not bad for a chintzy composer!

Dubious wrote: Salieri was no Mozart or Haydn but much of his music contains considerable talent worth listening to even now. There should more of it in the catalog. He was also highly regarded by Beethoven and a teacher of Schubert who had fond memories of him.

Here's one of the last 'chintzy' little pieces Mozart wrote before death preempted the rest of what might have been:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KUDs8KJc_c

...and this piece belongs to one of the three most powerful and profound short funeral elegies in all of music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFlNAl7HQQ

...not bad for a chintzy composer!

Thanks. Re the first one, I was distracted by the conductor. He seems to be all out of sync with the music. I've never seen that before.

Mentioned this before, though not in this thread. I like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, et al well enough, but I like classical much, much more once we get to the late 19th century and beyond--once later Wagner, Mussorgsky, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, etc. started opening up the harmonic, melodic, rhythmic, textural, structural, etc. palettes a lot more. Of course, there were earlier precursors, such as Beethoven's Große Fuge, but it took awhile for that sort of adventurousness to gel.

Beethoven had more balls and more courage in musical composition with the first phrase of his fourth symphony than Mozart had his whole musical career.

Mozart was an effete ponce writing empty headed dance music for brain dead courtiers, and inbred monarchs and aristos.

Beethoven was a man of the enlightenment, struggling with a major disability. Mozart was just not on the same page.

Terrapin Station wrote:Mentioned this before, though not in this thread. I like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, et al well enough, but I like classical much, much more once we get to the late 19th century and beyond--once later Wagner, Mussorgsky, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, etc. started opening up the harmonic, melodic, rhythmic, textural, structural, etc. palettes a lot more. Of course, there were earlier precursors, such as Beethoven's Große Fuge, but it took awhile for that sort of adventurousness to gel.

They also had a major advantage in new technologies in music. I like the "Romantics" but still consider Beethoven to be unsurpassed.

Did you see John Eliot Gardiner Playing the Fifth with original late 18thC instruments? I was glorious but shows how different things were back then.

moved to art

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Beethoven had more balls and more courage in musical composition with the first phrase of his fourth symphony than Mozart had his whole musical career.

Mozart was an effete ponce writing empty headed dance music for brain dead courtiers, and inbred monarchs and aristos.

Beethoven was a man of the enlightenment, struggling with a major disability. Mozart was just not on the same page.

They are completely different composers. You could even argue that without Mozart you wouldn't have had a Beethoven. You don't have to hate cats just because you like dogs.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Beethoven had more balls and more courage in musical composition with the first phrase of his fourth symphony than Mozart had his whole musical career.

Mozart was an effete ponce writing empty headed dance music for brain dead courtiers, and inbred monarchs and aristos.

Beethoven was a man of the enlightenment, struggling with a major disability. Mozart was just not on the same page.

They are completely different composers. You don't have to hate cats just because you like dogs.

I love dogs and hate cats. It just the way it is.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Beethoven had more balls and more courage in musical composition with the first phrase of his fourth symphony than Mozart had his whole musical career.

Mozart was an effete ponce writing empty headed dance music for brain dead courtiers, and inbred monarchs and aristos.

Beethoven was a man of the enlightenment, struggling with a major disability. Mozart was just not on the same page.

They are completely different composers. You don't have to hate cats just because you like dogs.

I love dogs and hate cats. It just the way it is.

Is that what this is about? You see Beethoven as 'macho' and Mozart as not? It's just a testosterone thing? Paul Newman loved cats. Men who are sure of their masculinity tend to love cats.
Btw Beethoven was strongly influenced by Mozart. I believe Mozart even taught him for a while.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: They are completely different composers. You don't have to hate cats just because you like dogs.

I love dogs and hate cats. It just the way it is.

Is that what this is about? You see Beethoven as 'macho' and Mozart as not? It's just a testosterone thing? Paul Newman loved cats. Men who are sure of their masculinity tend to love cats.
Btw Beethoven was strongly influenced by Mozart. I believe Mozart even taught him for a while.

No it has nothing to do with that at all. If any thing it is about class, not gender.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Btw Beethoven was strongly influenced by Mozart. I believe Mozart even taught him for a while.

I sure someone had the pleasure of teaching Rodin some sculpture at some point - ever heard of him?

Hobbes' Choice wrote: If any thing it is about class, not gender.

Music is music. Political agendas don't belong there. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: If any thing it is about class, not gender.

Music is music. Political agendas don't belong there. No, I don't know who Rodin's teacher was, but I bet Rodin was influenced by other sculptors.

All art is political. Only a damn fool with not understand that.