The Philosophy Now Forum

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:09 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:01 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:00 am

if you pull the trigger or drop the bomb- it is on you...

following orders provides no moral absolution

causalities of war included

-Imp

What about the leader who orders the soldier to drop the bombs. Is that leader responsible for anything?

blame follows the chain of command to a point

the entire chain of command

blame the leader, then the generals, then the lesser commanders all the way down to the squad leader...

in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:16 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:09 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:01 am

What about the leader who orders the soldier to drop the bombs. Is that leader responsible for anything?

blame follows the chain of command to a point

the entire chain of command

blame the leader, then the generals, then the lesser commanders all the way down to the squad leader...

in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Fair enough. Donald Trump, Khamenei, part of the American armed forces, and part of the Iranian armed forces are all responsible for all the deaths in the Iran war. Is that correct, then?

So basically they're all responsible? Are we also responsible for paying taxes to fund the war in Iran and/or if a person voted for Trump, who started the war, does that make them responsible too?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:22 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:16 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:09 am

blame follows the chain of command to a point

the entire chain of command

blame the leader, then the generals, then the lesser commanders all the way down to the squad leader...

in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Fair enough. Donald Trump, Khamenei, part of the American armed forces, and part of the Iranian armed forces are all responsible for all the deaths in the Iran war. Is that correct, then?

So basically they're all responsible? Are we also responsible for paying taxes to fund the war in Iran and/or if a person voted for Trump, who started the war, does that make them responsible too?

taken to extremes, everyone is responsible in a way - peripherally at best

but in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:22 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:16 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:09 am

blame follows the chain of command to a point

the entire chain of command

blame the leader, then the generals, then the lesser commanders all the way down to the squad leader...

in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Fair enough. Donald Trump, Khamenei, part of the American armed forces, and part of the Iranian armed forces are all responsible for all the deaths in the Iran war. Is that correct, then?

So basically they're all responsible? Are we also responsible for paying taxes to fund the war in Iran and/or if a person voted for Trump, who started the war, does that make them responsible too?

taken to extremes, everyone is responsible in a way - peripherally at best

but in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:29 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:22 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:16 am

Fair enough. Donald Trump, Khamenei, part of the American armed forces, and part of the Iranian armed forces are all responsible for all the deaths in the Iran war. Is that correct, then?

So basically they're all responsible? Are we also responsible for paying taxes to fund the war in Iran and/or if a person voted for Trump, who started the war, does that make them responsible too?

taken to extremes, everyone is responsible in a way - peripherally at best

but in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

So the Bible says thou shalt not kill. Did Alvin York go against God by agreeing to join the US Army and agreeing to go to Europe to fight?

York is famous for being a conscientious objector who finally decided to stick with the Army after reading a passage in the Bible that allegedly showed him that it was OK to fight for one's country because we must "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:30 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:22 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:16 am

Fair enough. Donald Trump, Khamenei, part of the American armed forces, and part of the Iranian armed forces are all responsible for all the deaths in the Iran war. Is that correct, then?

So basically they're all responsible? Are we also responsible for paying taxes to fund the war in Iran and/or if a person voted for Trump, who started the war, does that make them responsible too?

taken to extremes, everyone is responsible in a way - peripherally at best

but in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Also, if we are all responsible, is there anything we can do to remove that responsibility, or are those of us who don't want to kill people just screwed by whatever the rest decide?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:37 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:30 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:22 am

taken to extremes, everyone is responsible in a way - peripherally at best

but in the end, the soldier is responsible for their own actions

-Imp

Also, if we are all responsible, is there anything we can do to remove that responsibility, or are those of us who don't want to kill people just screwed by whatever the rest decide?

it was democratic wasn't it?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:13 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:06 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 11:48 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

-Imp

I must assume you saw the movie "Hacksaw Ridge"? It's awesome.

So...I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. Can you clear that up for me?

responsibility falls to the soldier

-Imp

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:39 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:37 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:30 am

Also, if we are all responsible, is there anything we can do to remove that responsibility, or are those of us who don't want to kill people just screwed by whatever the rest decide?

it was democratic wasn't it?

-Imp

So are people who didn't vote for Trump or who don't pay taxes also responsible for the deaths in the Iran war?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:43 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:39 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:37 am

it was democratic wasn't it?

-Imp

So are people who didn't vote for Trump or who don't pay taxes also responsible for the deaths in the Iran war?

guilt is a wonderful tool

-Imp

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:41 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:13 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:06 am
I must assume you saw the movie "Hacksaw Ridge"? It's awesome.

So...I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. Can you clear that up for me?

responsibility falls to the soldier

-Imp

Not to the guy who gave the order...at all?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:49 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:43 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:39 am

So are people who didn't vote for Trump or who don't pay taxes also responsible for the deaths in the Iran war?

guilt is a wonderful tool

-Imp

That doesn't answer my question: are people who didn't vote for Trump or who don't pay taxes also responsible for the deaths in the Iran War? Are you responsible for the deaths in the Iran War? Or are you not responsible?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:51 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:41 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:13 am

responsibility falls to the soldier

-Imp

Not to the guy who gave the order...at all?

did Doss do what the guy who gave the order told him to do? or did he do that which he felt morally correct?

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:57 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:49 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:43 am

guilt is a wonderful tool

-Imp

That doesn't answer my question: are people who didn't vote for Trump or who don't pay taxes also responsible for the deaths in the Iran War? Are you responsible for the deaths in the Iran War? Or are you not responsible?

I feel no guilt for things I don't do

I remain impenitent

-Imp

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 2:01 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:51 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2026 1:41 am
Not to the guy who gave the order...at all?

did Doss do what the guy who gave the order told him to do? or did he do that which he felt morally correct?

-Imp

No, I've got Doss. He's not a problem case.

I'm asking about whether your divide responsibility between the leader and the follower, or blame only the follower.

So if Hitler commanded, and then Himmler did it, then is it solely on Himmler, or does Hitler bear responsibility too, in your view.