The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:40 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:36 pm

Now, if we could only find out which opinion is wrong. Any idea on how we might go about that task?

Hint: use reality.

So God is a "he," and we know this because why?

We wouldn't -- unless God has spoken. Then the only important question becomes, if God has spoken, where or in whom, has He spoken?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:08 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:40 pm
Hint: use reality.

So God is a "he," and we know this because why?

We wouldn't -- unless God has spoken. Then the only important question becomes, if God has spoken, where or in whom, has He spoken?

And how are we to determine where or to whom he has spoken? And what if many of us go our entire lives without ever knowing the final verdict on these apparently discernible facts?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:12 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:08 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:43 pm

So God is a "he," and we know this because why?

We wouldn't -- unless God has spoken. Then the only important question becomes, if God has spoken, where or in whom, has He spoken?

And how are we to determine where or to whom he has spoken?

You're going to have to make a decision about that. So search it out: who is the most credible and reliable source? Whose personal life immaculately matches the message He has given concerning that? That's your most trustworthy spokesperson. Consider what He says on the matter, and decide whether or not you'll believe Him.

And you'll be staking your own life and eternal soul on the result. So make sure you do a serious search.

And you'll find that not to search is to have decided already.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:16 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:12 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:08 pm
We wouldn't -- unless God has spoken. Then the only important question becomes, if God has spoken, where or in whom, has He spoken?

And how are we to determine where or to whom he has spoken?

You're going to have to make a decision about that. So search it out: who is the most credible and reliable source? Whose personal life immaculately matches the message He has given concerning that? That's your most trustworthy spokesperson. Consider what He says on the matter, and decide whether or not you'll believe Him.

And you'll be staking your own life and eternal soul on the result. So make sure you do a serious search.

And you'll find that not to search is to have decided already.

I've decided already that I'm not interested in searching for something that may be scientifically unverifiable. For whatever reason, finding a pretty girlfriend is higher on my priority list. Good luck in your search.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:16 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:12 pm

And how are we to determine where or to whom he has spoken?

You're going to have to make a decision about that. So search it out: who is the most credible and reliable source? Whose personal life immaculately matches the message He has given concerning that? That's your most trustworthy spokesperson. Consider what He says on the matter, and decide whether or not you'll believe Him.

And you'll be staking your own life and eternal soul on the result. So make sure you do a serious search.

And you'll find that not to search is to have decided already.

I've decided already that I'm not interested in searching...

Then you have indeed made a decision...the most consequential decision any person could ever make.

I'm sorry that's your decision.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:26 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:16 pm
You're going to have to make a decision about that. So search it out: who is the most credible and reliable source? Whose personal life immaculately matches the message He has given concerning that? That's your most trustworthy spokesperson. Consider what He says on the matter, and decide whether or not you'll believe Him.

And you'll be staking your own life and eternal soul on the result. So make sure you do a serious search.

And you'll find that not to search is to have decided already.

I've decided already that I'm not interested in searching...

Then you have indeed made a decision...the most consequential decision any person could ever make.

I'm sorry that's your decision.

"Ironically, it's Communism that would make you the poorest. Because it would require you to redistribute to the entire world's population"

That's right, Gary. It would be like the night of the long communists. They would come to your house, take your television, microwave, and lazy boy recliner, and then divide the stuff up between the people down the street who only own an old refrigerator.

And this only if we all don't die by bullet or starvation like the hundreds of billions of russian, chinese, and asian people that got capped the last time they tried a revolution. That's what revolution must logically involve... brute force. It can't be done by reform and with the consent of the majority of citizens. If it's done at all... especially in the 21st century unburdened by the technological disadvantages that 20th century socialist societies faced... it will still be done with old rusty AK-47s.

Fun fact: your cellphone has more computing power than the most advanced Russian communist computer. So be prepared to not face hardly any of the major communication and planning problems that 20th century socialist societies faced.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:26 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:16 pm
You're going to have to make a decision about that. So search it out: who is the most credible and reliable source? Whose personal life immaculately matches the message He has given concerning that? That's your most trustworthy spokesperson. Consider what He says on the matter, and decide whether or not you'll believe Him.

And you'll be staking your own life and eternal soul on the result. So make sure you do a serious search.

And you'll find that not to search is to have decided already.

I've decided already that I'm not interested in searching...

Then you have indeed made a decision...the most consequential decision any person could ever make.

I'm sorry that's your decision.

Even atheists search. Example: Richard Feynman.

Christians found their spiritual answer, no need to search for meaning.
Christians search for manifestations of God’s grace in daily life, as reality unfolds, and then marvel.

But, an agnostic that doesn’t search?

Logically, Dorothy would say that’s a horse of a different color, but she was in the Emerald City where colors have different names, like the color of truth, which is like the flavour of truth.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2026 12:57 am `
Fun fact: your cellphone has more computing power than the most advanced Russian communist computer. So be prepared to not face hardly any of the major communication and planning problems that 20th century socialist societies faced.

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Did you perhaps mean something like "more computer power than the most advanced Russian "consumer grade computer"?" << that might or might not be true >>

And you obviously didn't mean because Communist, right? << I am sitting here in front of a Lenovo workstation (a CHINESE multinational)>>

Soviet era communist bastard computer peak performance was up to 1.9 gigaflops. Your phone is up to 2 teraflops. You could almost literally plan and administrate a whole economy on your phone, mate. Those Soviet computer nerdz built computers as big as busses that didn't have a fraction of the processing power in your pocket right now.

"Christians search for manifestations of God’s grace in daily life, as reality unfolds, and then marvel"

Clearly, none of them have ever been to that prison in India renound for it's unsanitary conditions. Forget the name of it. Whathisname the French serial killer (the 'serpent') who tried to flex on some Charles Manson level shit and get a crew together (they had a sexy 70s chick in that crew) to drug and rob tourists on the famous hippy trail was there. Exhausted from hunger and despair, you didn't even fight the rats off when they invaded your cell.

You mean that kind of grace? You'd marvel alright, but I'm not sure it would be at any grace. You would be living in something like a Wes Craven remake of The Secret of NIMH.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 3:46 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 8:12 am Immanuel, do you believe that God in the absolute sense is pansexual?

You've got the question backward. You're imagining that God has to have some sort of "sexuality" derived from the human model. God is the prototype, the original, the pattern from which the various aspects of man are derived; man is the mere image, reflection or (often palid) sub-pattern. He is the Creator, and the features we have can only partially reflect anything about Him. So we cannot deduce from the human to the divine; we have to think in the other direction.

Your question should be not about sexuality but about the nature of God Himself.

Yes, now seeing this in the reverse backward glance. That makes perfect sense of the nonsense.

Well stated Immanuel. God bless Immanuel, the reflection, reflective nature of God.

Who is Love, because Love is all there is, was and ever will be.

Thank you for the clarification. Gratitude.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 6:18 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 5:28 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 4:03 pm
Really? Exactly where does Torah claim they are a "parable"?

Something that contradicts science

So the Torah treats it as real, and you think "science" is contradicting it? Just how does science do that?

The Torah is a text written by man.
You can understand a text in different ways, depending on your intellectual preparation. A parrot and, excuse me, a fool, will understand literally everything.

By the way, the common people could perceive the historicity of ancient Greek myths literally, and philosophers, - allegorically.

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2026 9:58 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 6:18 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2026 5:28 pm
Something that contradicts science

So the Torah treats it as real, and you think "science" is contradicting it? Just how does science do that?

The Torah is a text written by man.

It depends what you mean "written by." The stylus may have been in the hand of Moses: does that mean the words belonged only to Moses? That's not the orthodox Jewish view, for certain. When Moses brought Torah, he had not dictated or revealed it to himself, had he?

In any case, you're not answering the question: in what way is it your claim that Torah is "contradicted" by science?