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Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:25 am
by Wizard22
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:21 amYou can't say a 'country is criminalising a race'. That doesn't actually mean anything. It's gobbledygook. You have to be more specific. Son't bother. I don't care anyway. If Americans what to kill each other with their gun obsession then so be it.
Based...?! :shock:

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Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:30 am
by Wizard22
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 amAfricans? I thought you were talking about the American prison population.
Higher-testosterone men tend to be criminals, unruly, rebellious, or closer to nature, tribal, indigenous, outdoorsmen, natives.

Manly-Men

Deeper voices, broad shoulders and chest, capable of severe violence (whether instigating or reacting to), challenge authority, etc.

The 'problem' with blacks in USA is that after African-Americans were released from slavery and manual labor on plantations, they were not assigned jobs thereafter. Hence most black men who had release for their higher-testosterone became Ghettoized, segregated to ghettos, where they criminalized one-another to this day. Now they are used as a voting-bloc by the US Democrats, who exchange Welfare benefits for their votes directly. If they did not distribute welfare among blacks, then blacks would not overwhelmingly vote Democrat in the United States.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:33 am
by vegetariantaxidermy
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:30 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 amAfricans? I thought you were talking about the American prison population.
Higher-testosterone men tend to be criminals, unruly, rebellious, or closer to nature, tribal, indigenous, outdoorsmen, natives.

Manly-Men

Deeper voices, broad shoulders and chest, capable of severe violence (whether instigating or reacting to), challenge authority, etc.

The 'problem' with blacks in USA is that after African-Americans were released from slavery and manual labor on plantations, they were not assigned jobs thereafter. Hence most black men who had release for their higher-testosterone became Ghettoized, segregated to ghettos, where they criminalized one-another to this day. Now they are used as a voting-bloc by the US Democrats, who exchange Welfare benefits for their votes directly. If they did not distribute welfare among blacks, then blacks would not overwhelmingly vote Democrat in the United States.
I don't care about your shitty politics or your shit-hole of a country. And Americans need to learn once and for all that AFRICA is NOT A COUNTRY. After how many hundreds of years does an American become just an American??

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:38 am
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:19 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:50 amAnd how is that caused?
There are many causes. The main one is a cultural institution valuing intelligence over other traits. For example, the Jewish people and religion favor intelligence very highly in their mating preferences, moreso than just about any other ethnic/racial group, hence why Ashkenazi Jews (European Semitic mixes), tend to have above-average IQ, regardless of the different countries they inhabit. So their intelligence *CANNOT* be attributed to local environments and native culture/domain.
That's very interesting, and, of course, every rule has its exception:


L7WFLIDEYZAHZHYJNNY3Z3UDTI.jpeg

Just kidding; I'm sure abominable dress sense has nothing to do with intelligence. 🙂

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:39 am
by Wizard22
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:33 amI don't care about your shitty politics or your shit-hole of a country. And Americans need to learn once and for all that AFRICA is NOT A COUNTRY. After how many hundreds of years does an American become just an American??
Everybody says that...until they get Americanized. I'm afraid, you cannot resist.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:53 am
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:30 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 amAfricans? I thought you were talking about the American prison population.
Higher-testosterone men tend to be criminals, unruly, rebellious, or closer to nature, tribal, indigenous, outdoorsmen, natives.

Manly-Men
So the problem is one of black manliness?
If they did not distribute welfare among blacks, then blacks would not overwhelmingly vote Democrat in the United States.
Perhaps the Democrats foolishly believe that abject poverty is some kind of incentive towards criminal behaviour. :?

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:56 am
by Wizard22
Harbal wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:53 amSo the problem is one of black manliness?
If they did not distribute welfare among blacks, then blacks would not overwhelmingly vote Democrat in the United States.
Perhaps the Democrats foolishly believe that abject poverty is some kind of incentive towards criminal behaviour. :?
Is it manly to dump your girlfriend or wife after they get pregnant, or the relationship gets rocky?

Manliness/Masculinity comes in many shades.

Black culture in the US today still stems from the West and East Coast gangbangers of the 1980s and 90s, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Notorious B.I.G.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:56 am
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:39 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:33 amI don't care about your shitty politics or your shit-hole of a country. And Americans need to learn once and for all that AFRICA is NOT A COUNTRY. After how many hundreds of years does an American become just an American??
Everybody says that...until they get Americanized. I'm afraid, you cannot resist.
Believe me, some of us can resist remarkably easily. 🙂

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:00 pm
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:56 am

Manliness/Masculinity comes in many shades.
I've heard it also comes in purple.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:44 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Theme music for this post
Harbal wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:20 amIs that because violence and criminality are an intrinsic part of the nature of black people, or does the reason for it have something to do with the position in society black people find themselves occupying, or is there some other reason? I'm not suggesting any of those is the most likely, I have no idea, but the reason is important when it comes having the appropriate attitude towards the problem.
Most people are aware that slavery had always been a part of African culture. In fact, though this has little relevance to the situation in America, the former English colonies, and Europe today, slavery is still rampant in the African and North African world. Amiri Baraka (Leroy Jones) wrote that in contradistinction to the condition of slavery for an African slave in Africa, to have been a slave in any of the European colonies, and in Colonial America, was distinctly different. One would have been totally ripped out of all social context. One would have lost one's own language. One would be completely separated from everything that made one what one was: culture, ancestry, links to the land, one's mythology, religion, spirituality.

In brief this means to have been ripped totally out of one context that one controlled and dominated and determined, and to have been *forced into servitude on the plantations of the White man's will*. A slave culture then is one that, by definition, has had all that we understand of *agency* taken from it. One's destiny is supplanted by the destiny of those one serves. And in the case of tribal Africans from West Africa -- uncivilized, primitive and *barbaric* in the old sociological sense of the word -- to be enslaved in Colonial and post-Colonial America meant to become subject to an extremely different will and destiny, and one defined by Europeans and their culture.

There is something else that must be considered when the the freeing of the slaves occurred: it was not earned (if I can use this word) by having rebelled and fought for freedom and independence, it was granted -- and again by the White man's will and decision. So even in *freedom* the African-American did not really have agency. It could be said that the freedom granted was an extension or a modification of the former condition of slavery. But it was not determined by the will of African-Americans themselves and this is a very important aspect if one desires to understand American history and the *problem* of race and culture in the United States (not to speak of other countries).

If you read Black writers you quickly realize that a large part of what concerns them -- here I mean after the War Between the States -- are core questions of identity, agency and destiny.

Consider the Bob Marley lyric (Buffalo Soldier):
If you know your history
Then you would know where you coming from
Then you wouldn't have to ask me
Who the heck do I think I am
I'm just a Buffalo Soldier
In the heart of America
Stolen from Africa, brought to America
Said he was fighting on arrival
Fighting for survival
Said he was a Buffalo Soldier
Win the war for America
To have been granted freedom, but to realize with increasing awareness, awareness that formerly was not possible because of the condition of oppression (to have no history, to have had one's history wiped away), that you have lost your own identity, agency and destiny, can be nothing else than a pretty troubling realization. Black rebellion, Black opposition, must be understood as a type of refusal to participate in a destiny and indeed a historical trajectory that is fundamentally not one's own. In fact what happened is that White America said to freed African Americans "You've now been granted freedom, now become just like White people".

The entire concept of *integration* is, if you can see why I say this, an extension of the former condition. But consider this poignant fact: perhaps they would not have wanted to 'integrate' in the sense of assuming a destiny that was not determined by their own will. Who would? And again if you read Black writers you find that the offer to *integrate* is received with a certain resentment and contempt.

The question of Black identity, Black power, Black independence, and Black resistance to everything that could be included under the phrase *White man's will* obviously, and perhaps even necessarily, is brought into relief. Consider Malcolm X's association with Elijah Mohammed and the Nation of Islam Movement. The idea, the motivation, was to create a genuine Black identity and a redefined Black destiny. You can see that a religious modality -- the entire structure of religion based on an awareness that one is a stranger in a strange (and hostile) land and the desire and need to create one's own genuine destiny -- became necessary.

Again, if you read Black writers you will see that they begin to realize, with increasing clarity, the degree to which they are not part of the White man's will -- that is, the will that built civilization in the New World (an extension of Europe and European destiny). This is not to say that some do not achieve, let's say, a thorough identification with European traditions and destiny. (There are hundreds of examples but Thomas Sowell is a good one to reference). But when you examine America today at a sociological level you will I think find that the core problem is that of *identification*.

As an aside, but not an irrelevant one, it is through the lens I have provided that one can gain insight into the recent actions of the BLM Movement, in association with various activist groups, that have torn down statues to the nation's founders, to core cultural figures, religious figures, who are deeply associated with American identity (in the sense of the White man's will and his sense of his power and destiny). It is I think pretty obvious that the focus of this social rage is against "a structure of identity and valuation that is not our own".

So as it happens -- indeed as it is happening -- America's *identity* is being fought over. As the demographics shift away from white dominance, another structure of identity must necessarily replace the old one. It should be obvious that in this struggle of power and definition that *tools* are needed. And as all here are aware it is Critical Theory and Critical Race Theory that has -- rather suddenly -- begun to dominate social analysis.

You will find that the so-called Far Right (the Tucker Carlson faction let's say) attempts to refute the CRT argument through blunting or discrediting its primary tool: race consciousness. Formerly, to be *American* was to have resolved to surrender former identity and to take on a new American identity.

My suggestion is that the more clearly that one sees the cultural and social struggles in America by grasping the history through honest and genuine analysis, the more insight one will have into the transmutations that are occurring.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:19 pm
by Harbal
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:44 pm
My suggestion is that the more clearly that one sees the cultural and social struggles in America by grasping the history through honest and genuine analysis, the more insight one will have into the transmutations that are occurring.
I agree, but the more common way seems to be to go with the gut feeling and "analyse" everything else into confirming it, as can be inferred from some of the comments here. Some truths are problematic, either from a practical point of view, or because they conflict with personal sentiment, but I always think an unwelcome truth is preferable to a satisfying, or even comforting, lie.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:35 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:19 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:50 am
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:05 am
East Asians (specifically South Koreans and Japanese) have higher average-IQ than other races (especially by mathematical education).
And how is that caused?
There are many causes. The main one is a cultural institution valuing intelligence over other traits. For example, the Jewish people and religion favor intelligence very highly in their mating preferences, moreso than just about any other ethnic/racial group, hence why Ashkenazi Jews (European Semitic mixes), tend to have above-average IQ, regardless of the different countries they inhabit. So their intelligence *CANNOT* be attributed to local environments and native culture/domain.
So in this instance you offer no causal role for race at all and attribute everything to culture. Remember you are the one who instriduced True racisms, so you need to assign a causal role to actual races.
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:19 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:50 am
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:05 am White males and females are more sexually desirable than other races.
Is this based on some sort of opinion survey?
Based off dating and matchmaking websites in the United States.
What factual assertion are you promoting? That on a dating site where most of the users are white those users statistically are more likely to match to other white people? Amateurish shit.
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:19 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:50 am
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:05 am Black males commit a substantially disproportionate amount of violent crimes in the United States based on their population %.
Do you propose that memebership of a certain race is responsible for levels of agression or something? How do you correct for the effects of centuries of oppression and enforced poverty?
Vege already answered it...it's mostly about higher than average testosterone. But there are other factors, like single-parent (mother) homes, poverty, cultural reinforcement (rappers promoting "thug life"), intended political suppression.
How did you statistically correct for externalities to arrive at that testosterone claim? I'm not so much concerned about the claim that testosterone levels vary between races, but the claim that this variance is more important than those other factors is unsupported. You are finally assigning a causal role to race here, you must show that you are capable of doing that work.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:41 pm
by FlashDangerpants
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:21 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:13 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:55 am So the oppression of someone's ancestors is causing someone to commit crimes today? Hmm. Prisons every must be full of Irish people then. And perhaps they are. You would never know though, because all 'white' people are lumped into the same statistic. Hmmm.
The alternative is to uncover which gene causes this violence. There's no need to do any of the statistical correction work that a scientist would need to perform given such a contaminated data set as the criminal statistics of a country that has a long history of criminalising race if you have that information and can show that black people have that gene and white people don't.
You can't say a 'country is criminalising a race'. That doesn't actually mean anything. It's gobbledygook. You have to be more specific. Don't bother. I don't care anyway. If Americans what to kill each other with their gun obsession then so be it.
You can do the research though and find out that black people tend to receive longer prison sentences for the same crimes than white people do.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/ ... r%20longer.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/vi ... t=articles

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/file ... aphics.pdf

If you can get years in prison for it, how is it not criminalised?

Re: Racism

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:18 am
by Wizard22
Harbal wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:00 pmI've heard it also comes in purple.
Something more red...

Re: Racism

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:34 am
by Wizard22
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:35 pmSo in this instance you offer no causal role for race at all and attribute everything to culture. Remember you are the one who instriduced True racisms, so you need to assign a causal role to actual races.
I commend you on your baiting skills...

I offered you "many" reasons but the one I chose was reinforcement of selected traits, particularly intelligence and IQ. The implication of this is sexual preference and mate-selection. In other words, women sexually desire a trait (choose any one: height, physique, intelligence, wealth, social status, race, religion, etc.) and then children are produced by these Causes. This reinforces the original trait, therefore the original Cause. The problem and drawback of single-trait selection though, is that it produces anomalies which cannot survive of their own volition: Savantism, Autism, Neuroticism, Schizophrenia and other forms of Socio/Psycho/Pathologies. In other words, polymaths can be produced, but they can be so socially autistic and anti-social as to then not reproduce themselves.


FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:35 pmWhat factual assertion are you promoting? That on a dating site where most of the users are white those users statistically are more likely to match to other white people? Amateurish shit.
1) It is factual information.
2) A higher preponderance of "white" online-dating users, does not infer that they would be racially favored by non-white Users.

So you're wrong on both accounts. You still need to explain for why whites outperform other races in general dating desirability.

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:35 pmHow did you statistically correct for externalities to arrive at that testosterone claim? I'm not so much concerned about the claim that testosterone levels vary between races, but the claim that this variance is more important than those other factors is unsupported. You are finally assigning a causal role to race here, you must show that you are capable of doing that work.
I studied Anthropology for about a decade. Testosterone is an obvious tell because it produces 'Sexual Dimorphism' in races which alters appearance. This is why, for example, in East Asians, males and females tend to look more 'similar' to each-other than compared to high-testosterone ethnicities and groups. This is as obvious as very large Height differences between males and females.

Which race on Earth has the highest difference of tall male to short female on the extremes?


Answer:

White Europeans (Dutch-Danish-Scandinavians) and,
Black Americans (basketball players).

So this implies a larger than average Testosterone average in these groups of males.