Philosophy Now Forum

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:28 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:16 pm And have you noticed that the biggest liars are the ones obsessed with "the Left"?

This is a worthy topic for conversation.

Yes, it is. Certain people have cottoned on to the idea that internet forums are a great place to spew out their political -and religious- poison. It doesn't matter what the nature of the forum is. It could be a philosophy forum, a singles/dating forum/ music lovers forum, absolutely any kind of forum. They see a ready assembled audience just waiting to be lied to, and manipulated into changing their attitudes and opinions to match those of their own. I've seen these scum bags on every forum I've been on, and I'm happy to say that they don't have much success, because most people have the sense to see them for what they are, just like most of us here see you and IC for what you are. The fact that such people overwhelmingly tend to be of the conservative right is just an unavoidable observation, and I would detest them just as much coming from any other political direction. I have no interest in Left v Right, I really don't care, but I do care about, and hate, dishonesty.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:01 pm
And yet...you have never met me, and do not know whether I'm genuine or not, as honesty would compel you to testify yourself. Nor has even one other person on this forum met me, and none of them have even the slightest insight to my mind, obviously.

That can be said about any one here.

We all might just as well be arguing our personal opinions with others, as though they were a shadow.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:01 pmSo your accusation is obviously a lie, in itself.

If it is your assumption that a liar is the truth, then all liars are the truth. See how absurd the word TRUTH is..it's actually meaningless.

You simply cannot lie in a world where there is only TRUTH.

Lying is thinking you know truth, which is impossible. The word ''truth'' is simply a fictional character within language, which the brain interprets as a belief, as though it is REAL.

False BELIEF's IC

False belief's are also assumptions. Don't attempt the peg tactic, you cannot peg one as being 'a wokie', unless you were absolutely sure about that, which you are not. Assumptions are presumptuous beliefs about things, they cannot be pegged, except to hang around inside your own head, albeit in an illusory sense. Remember not to get too hung up on the illusions you speak of IC

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:47 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:34 pm Habitual liars, like you and IC, are not difficult to spot by anyone paying attention. You might occasionally tell the truth, but with deceitful manipulators such as the pair of you, it is far safer to assume nothing you say is the truth. So no, you don't need to know the truth to spot a lie.

Very well. I will accept that as a good starting point: a bold assertion.

But I think it fair to ask you to prove your point. You would be asked to bring up an example, some evidence, of the 'lies' and the lying you refer to. With what would you start?

I don't intend to debate the matter with you. I have made an assertion, and anyone who sees it is free to make what they will of it.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:29 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:47 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:34 pm Habitual liars, like you and IC, are not difficult to spot by anyone paying attention. You might occasionally tell the truth, but with deceitful manipulators such as the pair of you, it is far safer to assume nothing you say is the truth. So no, you don't need to know the truth to spot a lie.

Very well. I will accept that as a good starting point: a bold assertion.

But I think it fair to ask you to prove your point. You would be asked to bring up an example, some evidence, of the 'lies' and the lying you refer to. With what would you start?

I don't intend to debate the matter with you. I have made an assertion, and anyone who sees it is free to make what they will of it.

The way the Woke imagine things to be, AJ, is that only they have "critical consciousness." That means that only their perspective, in which "racism" or "discrimination" or "oppression" explain absolutely everything...so everybody else is at least "asleep" or deluded, and hence, all they can ever say is "lies," since it fails to conform to "critical consciousness," which is the only way of knowing how things really are.

I don't know if H. is that "woke," but his tactics of accusing all opposition of being pernicious delusions or outright "lies" suggest he's been influenced by the Wokies. So you can interpret his claim as you want.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:53 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:39 pmAs for you; you couldn't tell the truth to save your life. You are known for it; your reputation on this forum for dishonesty is unsurpassed.

This is also interesting and should be examined more closely. Unfortunately, simply making the declaration is not enough Harbal.

That comment was made to IC, and anyone familiar with his posts will need no further information in order to assess the accuracy of it. His lying in the service of God does not mitigate his crimes, but only seems to make them worse, somehow.

Sorry about it not being enough.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:29 pm I don't intend to debate the matter with you. I have made an assertion, and anyone who sees it is free to make what they will of it.

I beg to differ. You cannot debate the matter because you make an assertion that you cannot back up. You accuse others of engaging in deception and lies -- fair enough since we all have to make these assessments according to our lights -- but in your specific case you have no foundation for your assertions. You simply say them. And that is not valid. Certainly not in a forum dedicated to philosophical discourse.

Saying that others will 'make what they will of it' is more an invitation to engage dishonestly, as you are engaging, as if numbers of agreers proves your point.

AJ wrote: This is a worthy topic for conversation.

Harbal replied: Yes, it is. Certain people have cottoned on to the idea that internet forums are a great place to spew out their political -and religious- poison. It doesn't matter what the nature of the forum is. It could be a philosophy forum, a singles/dating forum/ music lovers forum, absolutely any kind of forum. They see a ready assembled audience just waiting to be lied to, and manipulated into changing their attitudes and opinions to match those of their own. I've seen these scum bags on every forum I've been on, and I'm happy to say that they don't have much success, because most people have the sense to see them for what they are, just like most of us here see you and IC for what you are. The fact that such people overwhelmingly tend to be of the conservative right is just an unavoidable observation, and I would detest them just as much coming from any other political direction. I have no interest in Left v Right, I really don't care, but I do care about, and hate, dishonesty.

This is a philosophy forum not merely a random Internet forum. Here, ideally, ideas are discussed in depth among people with genuine interest and some level of preparation. So your entire assertion, whatever it is, has no bearing here.

They see a ready assembled audience just waiting to be lied to, and manipulated into changing their attitudes and opinions to match those of their own.

You fool, Harbal. All speech, all of our utterances, every time and anytime that we make a statement about what is true or what is false, we are proposing to others to be influenced by what we are saying.

If you have an understanding about something, if something you regard as true has foundation, then you will communicate from your platform and you will, or you will not, influence others. But you have to have worked out a platform! You have to have struggled with ideas. You will have had to submit your ideas to a forum (a group of people) and to have been challenged to defend your positions, or to alter them. To amend one's views, to alter one's views, to change one's mind, you idiot, is always a reasonable possibility. We accept when we come into an intellectual environ that we will encounter ideas that may indeed change how we see.

In the paragraph that I have quoted you are, in my view, talking sideways out of your asshole. What you are saying amounts to unsupported opinion amped up by claims asserted through ungrounded assertion. It demonstrates a bizarre but an empty circularity.

because most people have the sense to see them for what they are, just like most of us here see you and IC for what you are. The fact that such people overwhelmingly tend to be of the conservative right is just an unavoidable observation, and I would detest them just as much coming from any other political direction. I have no interest in Left v Right, I really don't care, but I do care about, and hate, dishonesty.

I challenge your assertion and your declaration at a basic and core level. You are dishonest. "Most of us here see you for what you are" is a dishonest, and fallacious, assertion. That is operative dishonestly and intellectually corrupt.

I have challenged you to present and develop your views. And you are incapable of it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:01 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:17 pm
Is that the level you're capable of now? Perhaps you should go back to swooning.

Well, it's clear your gun's out of ammo. Better go reload.

I don't know what I'm capable of, but we will find out in due course.

As for you; you couldn't tell the truth to save your life. You are known for it; your reputation on this forum for dishonesty is unsurpassed.

And yet...you have never met me, and do not know whether I'm genuine or not, as honesty would compel you to testify yourself. Nor has even one other person on this forum met me, and none of them have even the slightest insight to my mind, obviously.

So your accusation is obviously a lie, in itself. The attempt to induce unwarranted "shame" through unfounded accusation is totally typical of the Woke. They call "racist" people of whom they have no particular knowledge at all, simply in order to seize control of the agenda. And it works, for those who are unaware of the tactic, sometimes.

James Lindsay has summarized Wokeness as, "Calling everything 'racist' until you control it." That's actually quite right, in a general way: that's what Wokies do. So your plan is to call me a "liar" until you 'win'...even with absolutely no reason to do so.

The tactic is transparent and, if I might say, rather unimpressive. It only suggests your affinity with Wokie tactics is significant. I now understand why you're so offended on behalf of the Left...the Left you aren't even sure exists, allegedly.

My opinion of you is based on witnessing your conduct on the forum, and I confidently stand by it. I mean, just look at this post of yours that I am responding to. You are trying to present me as something you know I am not. You are a liar through and through, IC; you are prepared to say absolutely anything that makes you feel that you have come out on top. It's in your blood; there's nothing you can do about it.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:42 pm That comment was made to IC, and anyone familiar with his posts will need no further information in order to assess the accuracy of it. His lying in the service of God does not mitigate his crimes, but only seems to make them worse, somehow.

Well, I see the issue in a more nuanced manner. I have my own way, which I have struggled to gain through months of engagement and lots of internal self-interrogation and struggle, to assess and to think about the metaphysical claims of Christianity and, also, because they are distinct, IC's views, perspectives and ideas.

So I am not exactly on the same page or religiously or ideologically aligned with IC, but rather that I remain open to considering many different ideas and perspectives and, importantly, I am not going to shut myself down to the consideration of ideas that seem strange or that challenge me.

These who "need no further information" often seem to me to have been people with established, a priori opinions. I can respect their positions even if I choose to remain (more) open. I agree though: people who come from established perspectives often merely demonstrate their rigidity in their discourse.

"Lying in the service of god" is an odd statement. What would "telling the truth about god" be then?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:49 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:29 pm I don't intend to debate the matter with you. I have made an assertion, and anyone who sees it is free to make what they will of it.

I beg to differ.

Okay. Begging isn't against any forum rules, as far as I'm aware.

You cannot debate the matter because you make an assertion that you cannot back up.

Call it a firmly held opinion then, because I'm not jumping through any hoops to satisfy the likes of you, my good fellow.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:28 pm

As for people, sometimes only the people who will tell you the truth -- when you don't want to hear it -- are really being friends to you.

You are now just speaking absolute crappy poopy-cock, seriously, listen to yourself, your voice is just a typically conditioned foolish tape-recorder playing out the same worn-out old-fashioned boring overused clichés again. No one believes that stupid foolish bumkum that is ''trust me I am your friend'' malarkey anymore.

My God you are so old-fashioned IC stuck in the same worn-out endless groove, the one you keep digging for yourself, one that you are so deeply entrenched in that there is no way back for you. You simply have nowhere to stake your position to make any sensible or rational reasoning anymore with anyone on this forum. Your comments are so beyond the pale now, it's embarrassing

Truely truthful people have no need for friends. No one can tell you the truth, they can only remind you of what you already know. Spare the nauseating, sanctimonious, self- righteous,holier-than-thou tactic, it's boring, it's an insult to other peoples intelligence.

Friends can never be trusted, only you yourself can be trusted. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that living a solitary life is the only true way to live, and that does not mean that these solitude loving people reject other people as being their friend, rather, they have no problem with anyone really, friend or foe. Any one can hang around people who are trust worthy in their own right, who are true to themselves, as as long as the one's hanging around them respect their love for solitude, then all is well, always. The truth is in the eye of the beholder. Truth is always a matter of personal opinion.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:54 pm You are trying to present me as something you know I am not.

I don't know what you are. We've never met.

Instead, I'm asking what you are. And you're not really good at explaining it. Why you are so concerned about "the Woke" and the Left remains a mystery...and all the more, because you claim you don't even know what the Left is.

So no, the paltry shaming tactics don't work. And they're a little embarassing to you, if I might say, and smack of "Woke". You're smarter than that, I would guess; but you're also using their tactics, which are unworthy ones.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 4:59 pm "Lying in the service of god" is an odd statement. What would "telling the truth about god" be then?

This is something I've thought about, but not been able to figure out. I once assumed that IC believed what he said about God, but was just devious and deceitful in his arguments, but I have come to wonder if he does actually believe all he claims to. I'm not sure that he does, but he may well think it would be a good thing for society in general to believe it, because it would incline people to behave in such a way as he would like to see society behaving. This probably sounds preposterous to you, and to anyone else reading it, but I have my doubts that he actually believes in the existence of God at all.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:15 pm
I don't know what you are. We've never met.

But you have no problem making an assumption about what they are typical of being in your opinion only. You risk being a liar, because you really do not know what someone is, you even admitted that.

Keep projecting, keep assuming, your false belief, speculations, are all you've got to work with.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:15 pm
So no, the paltry shaming tactics don't work. And they're a little embarassing to you, if I might say, and smack of "Woke". You're smarter than that, I would guess; but you're also using their tactics, which are unworthy ones.

Says the biggest shamer of all.

Shame, you're smarter than that...you ''Wokie'' shamer.

What a condescending twit, you are being.

People are just trying to do the best they can, with the knowledge they have, that's only been passed onto them from previous generations. No one has been alive before, no one really knows what they are doing, and no other person is qualified or has the authority to tell them what to do, or what is best for them. People, everyone who is an adult, have to find that out for themselves as and through their own personal life experiences. It's not up to any one else who is walking even to direct their step.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:23 pm This probably sounds preposterous to you, and to anyone else reading it, but I have my doubts that he actually believes in the existence of God at all.

Well said Harbal.

In his own words, IC has said...I don't know what you are. We've never met. And yet claims to have met, or be in relationship with this WORD God

The joke is on IC, but he's too blinkered to get it. He's so fixated on words as being real entities, like the words he has read on this forum, and from the bible, it's just so hysterically the most funniest joke I've ever heard in a long time.