A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

[Godfree]

I agree that the burning of fossil fuels is environmentally damaging but what do you think we've got that could replace it given our current energy requirements?[/quote]
I think solar is the obvious replacement ,
there are big improvements already ,
I saw a dirt bike , runs on one battery , for about an hours trail ridding ,
the battery was designed by the guy who made the bike ,
uses salt water and is about 4 times as efficient as a standard one,
as the batteries and the engines get better,
they will be easier and easier to recharge ,
if each car had a solar panel on it's roof ,
and each house did the same , job done ,
the standard roof is a big enough surface to produce more than enough electricity for the house .
Planes will be our biggest challenge
to make a commercial airliner ,
that runs on batteries ,
now that will be a challenge ,,,!!!!

[chaz wyman]

I agree that the burning of fossil fuels is environmentally damaging but what do you think we've got that could replace it given our current energy requirements?

I think solar is the obvious replacement ,

It is more likely that cars will stay the same but be fixed to run on hydrogen, which can be made from water, and make no pollution.

as the batteries and the engines get better,

Battery cars have all so far been very disappointing, and massively expensive.

they will be easier and easier to recharge ,
if each car had a solar panel on it's roof ,
and each house did the same , job done ,

It is unlikely that this will ever work.
a super lightweigh car under the strongest sunshine in Australia can do 20mph, with a recumbent driver. But that was about 1/10th the weight of a normal car and can carry no cargo or passengers.

the standard roof is a big enough surface to produce more than enough electricity for the house .
Planes will be our biggest challenge
to make a commercial airliner ,
that runs on batteries ,
now that will be a challenge ,,,!!!!

Impossible. Airships filled with hydrogen or helium are more likely to be the replacement.

[/quote]

[Arising_uk]

Impossible. Airships filled with hydrogen or helium are more likely to be the replacement.

Ah! Now this is an idea I've been trying to punt for a long-time as truck-haulage of goods in our country is a joke, a nuisance, a danger, a health hazard and a waste of fuel and tarmac. As far as I can tell we still have a fear of the Zeppelin and Hydrogen but what I think people fail to note in the past disasters is that most of the crew managed to run away from the crash.

[Godfree]

It is unlikely that this will ever work.
a super lightweigh car under the strongest sunshine in Australia can do 20mph, with a recumbent driver. But that was about 1/10th the weight of a normal car and can carry no cargo or passengers.
Chaz , your not usually that far off the mark,
those cars do 100kmh , the best of them average that over the long runs they do, and they are not using battery backup ,
with solar panels on the roof , and just using the car a few times a week ,
or to go to work and back , as long as it was parked in the sunshine during the day , you would never need to charge it ,
it would only be commercial use that wouldn't work for solar ,
the problem is , they don't make enough money from us doing that , so they will fight to stop us getting that , forever , with spin and lies and cheating ,
they will crush 1000 lovely electric cars ,
they will make them more expensive ,they will publish reports that say,
batteries are more expensive, more polluting ,
they will do everything they can to stop us getting something for free ,,!!!

[SpheresOfBalance]

"All Electric" Automobiles

Tesla made in California, USA

Tesla Roadster
------------------------------------------------------
Type ----------------------------- 2 Door Sports Car
Seats ---------------------------- 2
Top Speed ----------------------- 125 MPH
0-60 MPH ----------------------- 3.9 secs
Battery Lifetime ---------------- 7 years or 100,000 miles
Range per charge --------------- 245 miles
Cost ------------------------------ $100,000+ USD

Tesla Model S (40kWh Batteries)
------------------------------------------------------
Type ----------------------------- 4 Door Sedan
Seats ---------------------------- 5 Adults + 2 Children
Top Speed ----------------------- 110 MPH
0-60 MPH ----------------------- 6.5 secs
Battery Type -------------------- Automotive-Grade, Lithium-Ion
Battery Lifetime ---------------- 8 years (Mileage varies)
Range per charge @ 55MPH --- 160 miles
Base Price ----------------------- $49,900 USD

Tesla Model S (60kWh Batteries)
------------------------------------------------------
Type ----------------------------- 4 Door Sedan
Seats ---------------------------- 5 Adults + 2 Children
Top Speed ----------------------- 120 MPH
0-60 MPH ----------------------- 5.9 secs
Battery Type -------------------- Automotive-Grade, Lithium-Ion
Battery Lifetime ---------------- 8 years (Mileage varies)
Range per charge @ 55MPH --- 230 miles
Base Price ----------------------- $59,900 USD

Tesla Model S (85kWh Batteries)
------------------------------------------------------
Type ----------------------------- 4 Door Sedan
Seats ---------------------------- 5 Adults + 2 Children
Top Speed ----------------------- 125 MPH
0-60 MPH ----------------------- 5.6 secs
Battery Type -------------------- Automotive-Grade, Lithium-Ion
Battery Lifetime ---------------- 8 years (Mileage varies)
Range per charge @ 55MPH --- 300 miles
Base Price ----------------------- $69,900 USD

[SpheresOfBalance]

But getting back to the threads topic:

I don't believe that any individual is the definitive atheist or theist such that they do not hold rigidly to any doctrine. This being said, it's clear that I do not believe in groupism. Therefore Each individual must be viewed in and of themselves, there can be no blanket statement as to which shall fair better in any particular category in judgment.

Why must we always group people; 'Us and them,' 'and who knows which is which and who is who?;' 'With, without, and who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?'
--Roger Waters--

[chaz wyman]

It is unlikely that this will ever work.
a super lightweigh car under the strongest sunshine in Australia can do 20mph, with a recumbent driver. But that was about 1/10th the weight of a normal car and can carry no cargo or passengers.
Chaz , your not usually that far off the mark,
those cars do 100kmh , the best of them average that over the long runs they do, and they are not using battery backup ,
with solar panels on the roof , and just using the car a few times a week ,
or to go to work and back , as long as it was parked in the sunshine during the day , you would never need to charge it ,
it would only be commercial use that wouldn't work for solar ,
the problem is , they don't make enough money from us doing that , so they will fight to stop us getting that , forever , with spin and lies and cheating ,
they will crush 1000 lovely electric cars ,
they will make them more expensive ,they will publish reports that say,
batteries are more expensive, more polluting ,
they will do everything they can to stop us getting something for free ,,!!!

Those cars are useless and ridiculously expensive.

There is simply insufficient energy falling on such a small area as that of a vehicle to provide enough power for a useful vehicle.
The max speed is on the flat in extreme sunshine midday.
Solar car
Main article: Solar car

Ned, constructed in 1999 by the South Australian Solar Car Consortium, can speed up to 120 km/h.
Solar cars depend on PV cells to convert sunlight into electricity to drive electric motors. Unlike solar thermal energy which converts solar energy to heat, PV cells directly convert sunlight into electricity.[1]
Solar cars combine technology typically used in the aerospace, bicycle, alternative energy and automotive industries. The design of a solar car is severely limited by the amount of energy input into the car. Solar cars are built for solar car races. Even the best solar cells can only collect limited power and energy over the area of a car's surface. This limits solar cars to a single seat, with no cargo capacity, and ultralight composite bodies to save weight. Solar cars lack the safety and convenience features of conventional vehicles.

Source Wiki.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Impossible. Airships filled with hydrogen or helium are more likely to be the replacement.

Ah! Now this is an idea I've been trying to punt for a long-time as truck-haulage of goods in our country is a joke, a nuisance, a danger, a health hazard and a waste of fuel and tarmac. As far as I can tell we still have a fear of the Zeppelin and Hydrogen but what I think people fail to note in the past disasters is that most of the crew managed to run away from the crash.

Preventative measures are a sound foundation on which to stand, Let me see you run away in the air.

[chaz wyman]

Impossible. Airships filled with hydrogen or helium are more likely to be the replacement.

Ah! Now this is an idea I've been trying to punt for a long-time as truck-haulage of goods in our country is a joke, a nuisance, a danger, a health hazard and a waste of fuel and tarmac. As far as I can tell we still have a fear of the Zeppelin and Hydrogen but what I think people fail to note in the past disasters is that most of the crew managed to run away from the crash.

There was a project a few years ago in the South of England with Helium. Such a project would need some outlay on infrastructure - but would be a massive saving of energy.

[chaz wyman]

Impossible. Airships filled with hydrogen or helium are more likely to be the replacement.

Ah! Now this is an idea I've been trying to punt for a long-time as truck-haulage of goods in our country is a joke, a nuisance, a danger, a health hazard and a waste of fuel and tarmac. As far as I can tell we still have a fear of the Zeppelin and Hydrogen but what I think people fail to note in the past disasters is that most of the crew managed to run away from the crash.

Preventative measures are a sound foundation on which to stand, Let me see you run away in the air.

it was hyped as a disaster but around 2/3 of the people on board escaped with their lives. Such is not the case with crashing airplanes, nor the 20, 000 people that die on the roads each year. Had ir been filled with helium or helium and a smaller %age of hydrogen then they all would have survived.

[Godfree]

[.
[/color][/quote]Ah! Now this is an idea I've been trying to punt for a long-time as truck-haulage of goods in our country is a joke, a nuisance, a danger, a health hazard and a waste of fuel and tarmac. As far as I can tell we still have a fear of the Zeppelin and Hydrogen but what I think people fail to note in the past disasters is that most of the crew managed to run away from the crash.[/quote]Preventative measures are a sound foundation on which to stand, Let me see you run away in the air.[/quote]

it was hyped as a disaster but around 2/3 of the people on board escaped with their lives. Such is not the case with crashing airplanes, nor the 20, 000 people that die on the roads each year. Had ir been filled with helium or helium and a smaller %age of hydrogen then they all would have survived.[/quote]
There is one obvious conclusion to draw from this fossil fuel debate ,
shipping goods around the world continuously is stupid and expensive ,
this global trade concept is the worst possible fuel efficiency ,
most of all produce should be consumed in the country it was grown in ,
and only snail mail sailing ships should deliver things like TV's etc ,
we need to get back to making most of our own stuff , cos fuel ,
will make it too expensive to be an exporter importer nation ...

[chaz wyman]

There is one obvious conclusion to draw from this fossil fuel debate ,
shipping goods around the world continuously is stupid and expensive ,
this global trade concept is the worst possible fuel efficiency ,
most of all produce should be consumed in the country it was grown in ,
and only snail mail sailing ships should deliver things like TV's etc ,
we need to get back to making most of our own stuff , cos fuel ,
will make it too expensive to be an exporter importer nation ...

Sadly due to the strangle hold of "let the market decide" there will not be any fossil fuel left whilst the margins mean that it is still cheaper to burn it. One day it will all be gone and we won't be ready. The price of shipping will go from affordable to impossible overnight.

[Godfree]

There is one obvious conclusion to draw from this fossil fuel debate ,
shipping goods around the world continuously is stupid and expensive ,
this global trade concept is the worst possible fuel efficiency ,
most of all produce should be consumed in the country it was grown in ,
and only snail mail sailing ships should deliver things like TV's etc ,
we need to get back to making most of our own stuff , cos fuel ,
will make it too expensive to be an exporter importer nation ...

Sadly due to the strangle hold of "let the market decide" there will not be any fossil fuel left whilst the margins mean that it is still cheaper to burn it. One day it will all be gone and we won't be ready. The price of shipping will go from affordable to impossible overnight.

Like a lot of evolution , mistakes happen ,
I believe it is a failed idea , this free trade , is just $ wars ,
we are each far too reliant on others to survive ,
In the old days we had to rely on ourselves more ,NZ had a car manufacturing industry , we made TV's and a lot of the appliances ,
that now all, come from China ,Korea or Japan ,
like america , NZ is losing manufacturing jobs ,
to Asia , the day it sank in for me ,
was when our own government contracted out the jobs to provide uniforms for our Military , and our rugby jerseys to overseas companies .
suicide , I find it hard to see that they couldn't see ,
that was the beginning of the end for our local industries ,,!!!

[chaz wyman]

There is one obvious conclusion to draw from this fossil fuel debate ,
shipping goods around the world continuously is stupid and expensive ,
this global trade concept is the worst possible fuel efficiency ,
most of all produce should be consumed in the country it was grown in ,
and only snail mail sailing ships should deliver things like TV's etc ,
we need to get back to making most of our own stuff , cos fuel ,
will make it too expensive to be an exporter importer nation ...

Sadly due to the strangle hold of "let the market decide" there will not be any fossil fuel left whilst the margins mean that it is still cheaper to burn it. One day it will all be gone and we won't be ready. The price of shipping will go from affordable to impossible overnight.

Like a lot of evolution , mistakes happen ,
I believe it is a failed idea , this free trade , is just $ wars ,
we are each far too reliant on others to survive ,
In the old days we had to rely on ourselves more ,NZ had a car manufacturing industry , we made TV's and a lot of the appliances ,
that now all, come from China ,Korea or Japan ,
like america , NZ is losing manufacturing jobs ,
to Asia , the day it sank in for me ,
was when our own government contracted out the jobs to provide uniforms for our Military , and our rugby jerseys to overseas companies .
suicide , I find it hard to see that they couldn't see ,
that was the beginning of the end for our local industries ,,!!!

None of this is relevant.
You have changed an issue of international concern into a pathetic moan about your domestic and parochial failings.

The point being - when the fuel shit hits the fan it will hit everyone.

[Godfree]

Relevant , to what , we left the original topic long ago ,
so the topic I believe is , do Atheists have morals ,
and the answer is yes , BUT ,
we are each unique individuals ,and have our own morals ,
it would be nice for society , if they could pigeon hole us ,
put us all in one category/known quantity ,
but Atheisms not like that , nor is religion really ,
but because they have "the book" they can point to their morals .
Atheists are individuals , not a religion , a cult or gang ,
we don't have a book , or set of rules to follow ,
I have my own set of rules , morals ,
I think we all do , but most prefer the comfort ,
of being part of a group , security in numbers ,
So maybe , to be an Atheist as I am ,
requires courage , the courage to stand alone ,
and stand up for what you believe .