Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 5:41 pm Nah, I'm not pickin' the lesser of two horrors. I ain't splittin' that hair.

Child murder, child rape: I'll treat both as they are...wrong.

Wrong or not, the question was simple.

Henry, there is no hair to split. I basically asked whether a foetus is going to spend a life dealing in pain more than a child that has been raped.

So you feel a foetus (that is not conscious to any extent of memories) is not likely to suffer more than a child that is raped?

the question was simple

no, it's false, and I ain't playin'

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:59 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 5:15 am You obviously don't have a clue what abortion involves and don't want to know.

Quite the opposite. I know what it is in detail...graphic, horrid detail.

Is abortion worse than child rape?

How is that relevant, either way? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 5:55 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:59 am
Well, we'll see what the Giver of Life has to say to them when they stand before Him. They have something to answer for.

When they stand before him? Even now, everyone stands before God.

Not in the Judgment. That's yet to come.

Old Karma.

Karma is Hinduism. Well, and Buddhism too, of course. Neither has a Judgment, nor even what is recognizable in the West as the "God" concept. They have multiple "gods" instead.

Different belief system, W.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:28 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:59 am
Quite the opposite. I know what it is in detail...graphic, horrid detail.

Is abortion worse than child rape?

How is that relevant, either way? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Of course it is relevant, we are talking about a conscious entity and the level of suffering. The level of suffering is ALL that is relevant.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:32 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 5:55 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:59 am
Well, we'll see what the Giver of Life has to say to them when they stand before Him. They have something to answer for.

When they stand before him? Even now, everyone stands before God.

Not in the Judgment. That's yet to come.

Old Karma.

Karma is Hinduism. Well, and Buddhism too, of course. Neither has a Judgment, nor even what is recognizable in the West as the "God" concept. They have multiple "gods" instead.

Different belief system, W.

Systems vary, but the nameless thing of a thousand names only varies in the perceptions that apply the name.

Getting to the root of things frees up leisure time that was taken up in the ordering of things made necessary only by habit, or made necessary by spiritual materialism when driven by comparing.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:28 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:23 pm
Is abortion worse than child rape?

How is that relevant, either way? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Of course it is relevant, we are talking about a conscious entity and the level of suffering. The level of suffering is ALL that is relevant.

I don't know what your question is supposed to illuminate, either way. What does my personal estimate of the relative wickedness of two evil actions have to do with anything?

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:39 pm Systems vary, but the nameless thing of a thousand names only varies in the perceptions that apply the name.

Nope.

Some things are just not compatible, W....like Christianity and "karma." They represent different worldviews entirely, different values, and very different conceptions of what is going on in the world. They contradict, rather than line up with each other.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:46 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:28 pm
How is that relevant, either way? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Of course it is relevant, we are talking about a conscious entity and the level of suffering. The level of suffering is ALL that is relevant.

I don't know what your question is supposed to illuminate, either way. What does my personal estimate of the relative wickedness of two evil actions have to do with anything?

It's easy, since one entity is conscious of wickedness and the other isn't...so why do you consider both wicked?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:53 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:46 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:34 pm

Of course it is relevant, we are talking about a conscious entity and the level of suffering. The level of suffering is ALL that is relevant.

I don't know what your question is supposed to illuminate, either way. What does my personal estimate of the relative wickedness of two evil actions have to do with anything?

It's easy, since one entity is conscious of wickedness and the other isn't...so why do you consider both wicked?

Well, it's evident that you don't know what a baby is conscious of, so that's a non-starter.

And there's plenty of evidence that babies in the womb are conscious and interactive with their mothers, long before they're even born. They have their own brainwaves, heart beats, reactions, movements and circulatory systems. They're individuals, in all those senses, even while in the womb. We know that. It's not even in dispute.

But even if you and I decided unilaterally, and against all evidence, to declare that no baby in the womb can ever be conscious, that would not change anything. For the primary fact is that all sins are firstly against God, not just against the victim. So both would remain wicked.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:39 pm Systems vary, but the nameless thing of a thousand names only varies in the perceptions that apply the name.

Nope.

Some things are just not compatible, W....like Christianity and "karma." They represent different worldviews entirely, different values, and very different conceptions of what is going on in the world. They contradict, rather than line up with each other.

That's because systems vary and God encompasses all systems, rather than any one particular system encompassing God.

I realize that's your interest, and that's fine. It has to be, for whatever reason.

However, although we are both thoughtful folks, as we assume everyone is, then I think attention should move towards another line of reasoning, in part caused by thinking that this new line, more directly relates to the thread topic. Yep, that's what I'm athinkin'.

Folks mistakenly think that deprivation leads to need.

This thought that folks think, is not supported by evidence.

Easy drink leads to a need for drink.
Easy food leads to a need for food.
Easy sex leads to the need for sex.
Easy abortion leads to a need for abortion.
Easy religion leads to a need for religion.

The question is, can anyone say where easy street leads?

btw: What's the deal with early Christianity and reincarnation? Is that some kind of rumour? I once heard it mentioned in a discussion somewhere, and didn't need to delve into it.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 7:11 pm ...systems vary and God encompasses all systems...

"Encompasses"? You don't mean to suggest that the real God is every god people have ever believe in, do you? You wouldn't, for example, say he's Molech or Satan or Shiva, would you? These 'gods,' whether we speak of Allah or Zeus or Odin, have very different description, natures, ethics, wishes, and so on...and rationalize different paths of life. You're not going to give me the old hokey thing about "all roads lead up the same mountain," again, are you?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 10:42 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 7:11 pm ...systems vary and God encompasses all systems...

"Encompasses"? You don't mean to suggest that the real God is every god people have ever believe in, do you? You wouldn't, for example, say he's Molech or Satan or Shiva, would you? These 'gods,' whether we speak of Allah or Zeus or Odin, have very different description, natures, ethics, wishes, and so on...and rationalize different paths of life. You're not going to give me the old hokey thing about "all roads lead up the same mountain," again, are you?

You seem to be suggesting that God makes religion, and those folks who don't hear God clearly, are following their own delusional interpretation, and not the religion made by God.

To say that different religions are all the same, is an oxymoron. I figured you would know that.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:32 pm Karma is Hinduism.

Comeon now. Let’s be clear.

Hinduism is a system, as you call it, that recognizes what is. Just because Hinduism says what is, does not mean that the saying makes it so.

Believing that the saying make it so, is Leftist logic.
Brandon is the role model for that kind of nonsense.
He even shouts what he says when he wants to make what he says, more saying.

Who in their right mind would choose to be like Brandon?

So comeon now. You can do better than hokey patronizing.