Philosophy Now Forum

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attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:28 pm .

So if someone doesn't do it exactly the way you have done it, it doesn't count. LOL. You are laughable.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:30 am Okay, now we are in the point that you need to answer this question: Was there a state of affair that only God existed?

It depends what you mean by "existed."

If you mean, as your argument seems to require, "Was there a time when God was subject to the rules of time, space and causality as human beings known them, the answer is surely "No."

But if your question is, "Was there a God before even time existed," the answer is "Yes." That's the implication of God's Hebrew title, "I Am." (יהוה) It refers to God's absolute eternality.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:53 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:30 am Okay, now we are in the point that you need to answer this question: Was there a state of affair that only God existed?

It depends what you mean by "existed."

If you mean, as your argument seems to require, "Was there a time when God was subject to the rules of time, space and causality as human beings known them, the answer is surely "No."

But if your question is, "Was there a God before even time existed," the answer is "Yes." That's the implication of God's Hebrew title, "I Am." (יהוה) It refers to God's absolute eternality.

The very reason WHY 'God' is referred to as absolute eternality (or eternity) is because the Universe, Itself, which is God, in the physical sense, IS quite simply infinite AND eternal.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:13 am
The very reason WHY 'God' is referred to as absolute eternality (or eternity) is because the Universe, Itself, which is God, in the physical sense, IS quite simply infinite AND eternal.

That's one idea but it is not accepted by everyone. The universe could be of definite size and age, and will end after a definite time.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:58 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:13 am
The very reason WHY 'God' is referred to as absolute eternality (or eternity) is because the Universe, Itself, which is God, in the physical sense, IS quite simply infinite AND eternal.

That's one idea but it is not accepted by everyone.

The earth not being flat at one point also was not accepted by everyone.

Also, and if the Truth wants to be KNOWN, the earth not being flat is STILL not accepted by everyone. But what bearing does this have on what is actually True, Right, and Correct?

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:58 pm The universe could be of definite size and age, and will end after a definite time.

The Universe "could" be what you just said here.

But how COULD any and all of that even be a POSSIBILITY?

Until you can come up with some sort of explanation of how there even could be just a POSSIBILITY that the Universe could have a definite size and/or age, and/or will end after a definite time, then WHY would ANY one even consider that, as of yet, NON POSSIBLE concept and idea?

If 'you' have ANY way ANY of what you said could even be a POSSIBILITY, then let us SEE this, for once and for all.

To me, for ANY one to consider ANY thing that does not even have an explanation of how it could even be a POSSIBILITY is just a waste, especially considering that that one could be LOOKING AT and SEEING the actual Truth of things, instead. Like, for example, what I have just said and explained.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:58 pm The universe could be of definite size and age, and will end after a definite time.

Well, the red shift effect shows that it's expanding, so it's not of definite size (except at a given moment), but is of a definite age. And entropy definitively shows it will end. So the empirical evidence is compelling that you're essentially correct about that.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:21 pm

The earth not being flat at one point also was not accepted by everyone.

Also, and if the Truth wants to be KNOWN, the earth not being flat is STILL not accepted by everyone. But what bearing does this have on what is actually True, Right, and Correct?



But how COULD any and all of that even be a POSSIBILITY?

Until you can come up with some sort of explanation of how there even could be just a POSSIBILITY that the Universe could have a definite size and/or age, and/or will end after a definite time, then WHY would ANY one even consider that, as of yet, NON POSSIBLE concept and idea?

If 'you' have ANY way ANY of what you said could even be a POSSIBILITY, then let us SEE this, for once and for all.

To me, for ANY one to consider ANY thing that does not even have an explanation of how it could even be a POSSIBILITY is just a waste, especially considering that that one could be LOOKING AT and SEEING the actual Truth of things, instead. Like, for example, what I have just said and explained.

Are you saying that you believe the Earth is flat?

The universe has a definite beginning and probably a definite end, unless you are ready to deny all the evidence supporting it.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:24 pm Are you saying that you believe the Earth is flat?

The universe has a definite beginning and probably a definite end, unless you are ready to deny all the evidence supporting it.

Trying to talk to "Age" is like trying to drill a hole in water, Bardo. Sooner or later, you're going to want to just walk away.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:53 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:30 am Okay, now we are in the point that you need to answer this question: Was there a state of affair that only God existed?

It depends what you mean by "existed."

If you mean, as your argument seems to require, "Was there a time when God was subject to the rules of time, space and causality as human beings known them, the answer is surely "No."

But if your question is, "Was there a God before even time existed," the answer is "Yes." That's the implication of God's Hebrew title, "I Am." (יהוה) It refers to God's absolute eternality.

Ok. Was there a point that the universe didn't exist?

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:35 am Ok. Was there a point that the universe didn't exist?

Yes.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:47 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:35 am Ok. Was there a point that the universe didn't exist?

Yes.

And then universe exist at another point?

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:57 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:47 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:35 am Ok. Was there a point that the universe didn't exist?

Yes.

And then universe exist at another point?

Of course.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pm

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:58 pm The universe could be of definite size and age, and will end after a definite time.

Well, the red shift effect shows that it's expanding,

Lol

Another example of believing things, solely because they are written in a book, which in the same book it says that this is the truth of things, and in essence also saying that this book must be, or it would best to, be believed as holding thee Truth of things.

'you', "Immanuel can?", would recognize this scenario, correct? Or, may be you do not.

"scientists" and "followers" of science are closer in resemblence than they are different, to the "leaders" and "followers" of religion.

They each and all base their OWN truths on things, which are essentially just really assumptions and guesses only.

Either I can PROVE this True, Right, and/or Correct, or I will be PROVEN WRONG. Any one up for a logically reasoned discussion?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pmso it's not of definite size (except at a given moment),

And at any given moment that supposed not definite size is infinite, OBVIOUSLY.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pmbut is of a definite age.

REALLY?

so, when did the Universe begin, and how did It "begin"?

Would I be correct, because; It is written in a book?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pm And entropy definitively shows it will end.

Oh well that sounds like 'you', "Immanuel can", already KNOW what the definite Truth IS. So, there is NO need for to be OPEN to any thing contrary correct?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pm So the empirical evidence is compelling that you're essentially correct about that.

Lol

How wrong can some be?

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:24 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:21 pm

The earth not being flat at one point also was not accepted by everyone.

Also, and if the Truth wants to be KNOWN, the earth not being flat is STILL not accepted by everyone. But what bearing does this have on what is actually True, Right, and Correct?



But how COULD any and all of that even be a POSSIBILITY?

Until you can come up with some sort of explanation of how there even could be just a POSSIBILITY that the Universe could have a definite size and/or age, and/or will end after a definite time, then WHY would ANY one even consider that, as of yet, NON POSSIBLE concept and idea?

If 'you' have ANY way ANY of what you said could even be a POSSIBILITY, then let us SEE this, for once and for all.

To me, for ANY one to consider ANY thing that does not even have an explanation of how it could even be a POSSIBILITY is just a waste, especially considering that that one could be LOOKING AT and SEEING the actual Truth of things, instead. Like, for example, what I have just said and explained.

Are you saying that you believe the Earth is flat?

Are you SERIOUS?

Did you REALLY miss the actual point I was making?

Show us readers WHERE in my writings made you even consider this. What made you ask such an incomprehensible clarifying question.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:24 pmThe universe has a definite beginning and probably a definite end, unless you are ready to deny all the evidence supporting it.

Lol

What is all the so called "evidence" supporting the Universe DEFINITELY began?

I have yet to SEE any evidence supporting such a claim, so I can not deny what does not even exist.

Also, if you BELIEVE so strongly that the Universe began, then are you at all able to explain how that could even be possible, let alone getting you to explain how it even happened?

If you can explain how it could even be a possibility, let alone a fact, then please explain how.

This should be amusing to SEE.