Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:25 pm**

DAM

A human being, ordinary in every outward respect is called to be a mouthpiece for God.

A human being is in the image of God as inner UNITY and serves a conscious purpose within creation. Man on earth is a PLURALITY Paul called the “wretched man” and as such only serves nature’s mechanical needs through its bodily processes as does the rest of organic life on earth. It is senseless to confuse the two.

Is there anything outside of attention or space….we can add? is there anything outside of existence? OR is there non-existence? if there is non-existence, that means that non-existence exists, which puts non-existence ''inside'' existence... Two, but not two.
You must be even prior to, the source of, and are existence CONSCIOUSNESS.... before Abraham was, I AM ( IS)... Two, but not two.

God is ONE

Yes, God doesn’t exist. GOD IS. Existence is a process and God isn’t a process. Where GOD IS, the body of God within isness exists within the ONE in the form of its three primal forces manifesting as different qualities of being on a lawful scale of levels of reality. God is then simultaneously both ONE and three.

Nick you always seem to be angry at the world! ..perhaps you need to renounce everything you believe about (man's ways) back to God. Why not release all judgment, and surrender your life willingly back to God without fear of losing your own personal self biased egoic interests. I'm not saying kill yourself or allow another to kill you, I'm saying just BE true to yourself, in knowing your own true self you will come to see that nothing can ever harm you. Only when you relinquish any personal control over situations that are not within your personal control,will you come to know true Nirvana and true freedom.

Why be angry at the world? It is as foolish as being angry at the weather. Admitting the world for what it is requires conscious attention. Anger prevents conscious attention. No sense in escaping into imagined nirvana. Man’s future depends on if he becomes able to consciously verify that he is in Plato’s cave and become consciously able to leave. Putting ones head in the sand doesn’t accomplish anything.

I'm saying just BE true to yourself, in knowing your own true self you will come to see that nothing can ever harm you.

You don’t have a true self. You are a plurality with the potential for inner unity or what could be called “true self” or the soul of Man. Forget about “true self.” Know thyself or what you are. Start at the beginning.

Jesus in the above quote confirms that which Advaita teaches. Guru (Jesus) is the full manifestation of God (Brahman) as Atman in Him
For me it's a dualistic way to explain the unexplainable non-dual state which is the nature of God.

Jesus is a son of God; not God.

If man insists on externalising his true self in the form of "God" then why fear his true self, in fearing "God"?
Just close the gap between yourself and your God.

This is the same misconception people fall into when they join “A Course in Miracles. Its premise is:

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

Distinguishing between the real and unreal is impossible through escapism. That is why I admire those like Simone Weil. They have the need, will, and courage, to experience the world and their self within it for what it is with conscious attention. She wrote:

"A test of what is real is that it is hard and rough. Joys are found in it, not pleasure. What is pleasant belongs to dreams."-- Gravity and Grace

No escape into the dreams of nirvana or the belief that “I am God”. She refers to the potential for the conscious evolution for Man

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:41 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:25 pm
Jesus is a son of God; not God.

Jesus is a son of man. Within the dream of separation. A dream within God's infinite mind where he dreams of being a man.

''The beast within:

Animal imagery is one of the most common metaphors to describe human violence and evil in the Psalms and Prophets. But all is not lost. God made a promise (Genesis 3:15) that a human would come one day, a son of the woman who would crush the serpent on its head, while also being struck by the serpent. This theme develops throughout the biblical story as God continues to raise up unlikely deliverers like Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Deborah, Samuel, and David. Each one of these characters is both heroic and compromised. Each one can become a glorious human representative of God or a deceptive and selfish agent of evil and violence. And so the patient reader of the Old Testament must wait for the next generation to produce the promised human.''

If man insists on externalising his true self in the form of "God" then why fear his true self, in fearing "God"?
Just close the gap between yourself and your God.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:25 pmThis is the same misconception people fall into when they join “A Course in Miracles. Its premise is:

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

Distinguishing between the real and unreal is impossible through escapism. That is why I admire those like Simone Weil. They have the need, will, and courage, to experience the world and their self within it for what it is with conscious attention. She wrote:

"A test of what is real is that it is hard and rough. Joys are found in it, not pleasure. What is pleasant belongs to dreams."-- Gravity and Grace

No escape into the dreams of nirvana or the belief that “I am God”. She refers to the potential for the conscious evolution for Man

I do understand what you are saying Nick. But for me, the Awakening is not about ''escapism''. I do not understand why you keep bringing up that word all the time?

The awakening is about being fearless when letting go of ego self, when letting go of worldly possessions including people and knowing nothing belongs to you, it is dying before you physically die and trusting only in Gods will, and not mans. Nirvana is your true nature which is here now. You do not escape from something else to it. You are IT.
An awakening of sorts will reveal the divine nature of itself to itself only when life evolves that awakening to take place as and when it's meant to happen according to God's will....no man can make make anything happen if it's not meant to happen.
Awakening has nothing to do with ''escapism'' . Awakening is about being totally present without fear and being obedient only to God's will which in turn benefits all mankind. Because you can only change yourself not the world, and so only when your own house is in order this ''inner peace'' will automatically impact every person around you, including animals and all of nature, because nature is already awake, it's just waiting for man to awaken too. But the heretic has to die, that's the only sacrifice here. Nothing is ever lost in silence.

As for distinctions ...''Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things.''

It all points to the same ONE SELF.

.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:09 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:10 am Age, this is what you wrote:

The idea behind this is because when 'you' are able to answer the question, Who am 'I' properly and correctly, then the True Self is known and understood. Thy True Self IS God.
A person experiences that they keep saying I do this and I do that and finally wonder who is this I that is doing it all so ask "who am I." This is very natural question which rises during a person's life. You wrote that when the question is asked properly then the true self is known and "thy true self is God."

I NEVER EVER said such a thing. I NEVER said; "When the question is ASKED properly ...".

What I did say, however, IS; "When 'you' are able to ANSWER the question, Who am 'I' properly ..."

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:10 amHow can this be understood other than that you believe your true self is God?

As I said; WHEN 'you' are able to ANSWER the question properly and correctly, THEN thee True Self is KNOWN and UNDERSTOOD.

who and what the 'you' IS, NEEDS to be KNOWN and UNDERSTOOD, ALSO, in order to KNOW and UNDERSTAND that 'you' NOR 'your' true self are God.

What WILL BE understood is completely and utterly different than your ASSUMPTION that there is NO other way of understanding this other than "your true self is God".

Also, and I am NOT sure how many times I will have to say this BEFORE even this most simplest of things is UNDERSTOOD, that is; I neither believe nor disbelieve ANY thing?

So firstly, let us take out that I BELIEVE my true self is God. IF I do NOT believe ANY thing, then I certainly can NOT believe what you just proposed I do.

Secondly, there are human beings and the true self of each human being is NOT God. Thy True Self, which is God, is an entirely separate entity.

Thirdly, the question who am 'I'? refers to a capital 'I', of which there is ONLY One, and it is this One, which is God - Thy True Self. NO human being is God. These writings are coming through the fingers on a human body, and if I am not mistaken you THINK that I am saying this human being's true self is God, which could NOT be any further from the actual Truth of things. This 'human being' is just ANOTHER person/human body.

Lastly, IF you REALLY want to comprehend how what I am saying can be understood, then do NOT assume that it could not be understood in another way than the ONLY one that you are assuming now. IF, and WHEN, you are Truly OPEN, then this is when you will SEE that I do NOT believe nor even remotely think my true self is God.

The ANSWER to the question 'Who am 'I'?' actually has nothing at all whatsoever to do with 'you', human beings, other than the proper and correct ANSWER is found in and discovered in Truly OPEN human beings, and so that knowledge, which comes through human beings, WILL also get passed on through 'you', human beings.

So, you got the very first part RIGHT. Yes that was what I wrote. However, ALL of the ASSUMPTIONS you have made, from what I actually wrote, appear to be wrong. I suggest just asking me clarifying questions, from a Truly OPEN perspective, BEFORE you make ANY assumptions at all, then we would not get so bogged down here.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:35 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 am Age

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm

People like me learn from this small minority rather than hate them for disturbing the peace.

Why do 'you, human beings, even hate each "other" for anyway?

The is NO logical reason to hate "another" human being anyway. 'you' are ALL essentially the EXACT SAME anyway.

This is a dangerous question and will get people kicked out of Philosophy sites so can only be pursued superficially.

I do NOT understand HOW nor WHY the Truly OPEN clarifying question; 'Why do 'you', human beings, even hate each "other" for anyway?' is a "dangerous question", NOR do I understand HOW nor WHY asking a clarifying question would get people kicked out of philosophy sites. So can you explain your response here? Also, why can that question be pursued in ONLY a superficial way?

If 'you', an individual human being, hates "others", then why NOT just answer Honestly why 'you' hate "others"? It REALLY is just that SIMPLE.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 amHave you ever thought seriously why Jesus and Socrates had to be killed?

But they did NOT 'have to be' killed. Some people chose to kill them because they hated what they were saying. So, WHY do 'you', an individual human being, HATE? When you have that proper and correct ANSWER, then you will also KNOW WHY ALL human beings HATE, and then when that ANSWER is KNOWN, then 'you', human beings, can start doing what it takes to prevent younger human beings growing up HATING also. THEN, the purpose of WHY, as you say, human beings like the ones called "jesus" and "socrates" 'had to be' killed WILL also be KNOWN.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 amThere is no choice in the matter. Jesus knew he was to be killed from the beginning.

What do you mean by "from the beginning"?

From when did "jesus" know he was to be killed?

And IF "jesus" knew he was going to be killed for what he way saying, then WHY did he just NOT have the patience to wait and LEARN how to communicate better with human beings, so that he could be understood FULLY?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 amSeriously pondering what they said which had to result in their deaths is a dangerous subject.

Until you tell me WHY pondering what they said is a dangerous subject I may NEVER know.

To me pondering such things is NOT a dangerous subject at all. In fact, it has now become more curiously exciting and more interesting.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 am It is safe to dance around it with platitudes but to really open to why they couldn't be tolerated has to be contemplated by anyone with a sincere need for the truth of man's being.

But thee Truth of human's being is ALREADY known AND understood FULLY.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 am it took me a while to admit to why this apparent absurdity is a reality but once I did, it became clear why the world and all it cruel hypocrisy must continue as it does.

WHY MUST 'you', human beings, continually be cruel AND hypocritical?

I can SEE the opposite and WHY you ALL can very EASILY and very SIMPLY STOP being so cruel and hypocritical.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:28 amThis question is best avoided unless in the presence of those who won't go berzerk when confronted with the reality of human being. So it is best to keep it superficial in normal circumstances so as not to disturb the peace.

WHAT 'peace'?

You just, contradictory, said; it became clear why the world and all its 'cruel hypocrisy' MUST CONTINUE AS IT DOES.

So EITHER there is 'peace' or there is 'cruel hypocrisy'. There can NOT be BOTH at the same time. So, which one is it?

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:45 pm**

Dam

Jesus is a son of man. Within the dream of separation. A dream within God's infinite mind where he dreams of being a man.

Dreaming is for fallen man. Why associate it with the consciousness of the ineffable?

Awakening has nothing to do with ''escapism'' . Awakening is about being totally present without fear and being obedient only to God's will which in turn benefits all mankind. Because you can only change yourself not the world, and so only when your own house is in order this ''inner peace'' will automatically impact every person around you, including animals and all of nature, because nature is already awake, it's just waiting for man to awaken too. But the heretic has to die, that's the only sacrifice here. Nothing is ever lost in silence.

Awakening is one thing but imagining awakening is another. The seeker of truth soon experientially verifies that they are the wretched man described by Paul in Romans 7. So rather than imagining awakening they are willing to admit why they are as they are and have that as the starting point in the desire to become a conscious human being capable of conscious action rather than being limited to the responses of a reacting creature

Imagination takes the place of consciousness. Escapist imagining and consciousness are mutually exclusive. Human consciousness is absent where imagination is dominant and dreaming is absent in the presence of conscious attention. God as the conscious origin of our universe cannot be a dreamer denying consciousness..

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:58 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:45 pm Dam

Jesus is a son of man. Within the dream of separation. A dream within God's infinite mind where he dreams of being a man.
Dreaming is for fallen man. Why associate it with the consciousness of the ineffable?

Awakening has nothing to do with ''escapism'' . Awakening is about being totally present without fear and being obedient only to God's will which in turn benefits all mankind. Because you can only change yourself not the world, and so only when your own house is in order this ''inner peace'' will automatically impact every person around you, including animals and all of nature, because nature is already awake, it's just waiting for man to awaken too. But the heretic has to die, that's the only sacrifice here. Nothing is ever lost in silence.
Awakening is one thing but imagining awakening is another. The seeker of truth soon experientially verifies that they are the wretched man described by Paul in Romans 7. So rather than imagining awakening they are willing to admit why they are as they are and have that as the starting point in the desire to become a conscious human being capable of conscious action rather than being limited to the responses of a reacting creature

Imagination takes the place of consciousness. Escapist imagining and consciousness are mutually exclusive. Human consciousness is absent where imagination is dominant and dreaming is absent in the presence of conscious attention. God as the conscious origin of our universe cannot be a dreamer denying consciousness..

Nick, thanks for the response, but I have absolutely no idea what the heck you are going on about.

.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm**

Age

I do NOT understand HOW nor WHY the Truly OPEN clarifying question; 'Why do 'you', human beings, even hate each "other" for anyway?' is a "dangerous question", NOR do I understand HOW nor WHY asking a clarifying question would get people kicked out of philosophy sites. So can you explain your response here? Also, why can that question be pursued in ONLY a superficial way?

If 'you', an individual human being, hates "others", then why NOT just answer Honestly why 'you' hate "others"? It REALLY is just that SIMPLE.

Have you ever wondered why Christ used parables? Why didn’t he just speak plainly? As I said this is a dangerous question which is why it cannot be raised where it isn’t wanted most of all in secular philosophy sites. You would think that philosophy by definition would welcome the essential questions of the heart which are the basis of philosophy. Not with secularized philosophy. That is why Plato’s cave cannot be discussed in depth. It raises questions which threaten human defense mechanisms. These questions raise such negativity that a thread is closed down and the person continually raising such questions must be banned. Secular philosophy sites are useful to learn about resistance but its depth must be limited to support of blind denial which so often expresses itself as hate.

"Grace fills empty spaces, but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it We must continually suspend the work of the imagination in filling the void within ourselves."

"In no matter what circumstances, if the imagination is stopped from pouring itself out, we have a void (the poor in spirit). In no matter what circumstances... imagination can fill the void. This is why the average human beings can become prisoners, slaves, prostitutes, and pass thru no matter what suffering without being purified."

"That is why we fly from the inner void, since God might steal into it. It is not the pursuit of pleasure and the aversion for effort which causes sin, but fear of God. We know that we cannot see him face to face without dying, and we do not want to die."
Simone Weil -- Gravity and Grace

Our personality rather than our essence lives our life for us. The great questions of philosophy and the essence of religion are directed towards our essence. This is why Christ spoke in parables. They are designed much like a Zen koan to get past our personality and intrigue our essence.

Where we are born with our essence we acquire the defense mechanisms of our personality. That is why it must die in the presence of the truth of higher consciousness. It doesn’t want to die so whatever offers the possibility of the realistic experience of unwanted questions must be hated. It is an understandable defense mechanism the seeker of truth must outgrow.

Jesus and Socrates both had to be killed since they represented influential humanity with the power to awaken. Such awakening means the death of our acquired defense mechanisms so we have this struggle between the power of essential truth against the power of the lie

The only way to stop hating is through awakening to the truth of what we are and why the human condition compels us to live in the unnatural state of imagination. But since such knowledge threatens the dominant personality which governs life in Plato’s cave it is only possible for the small minority willing to sacrifice defense mechanisms in pursuit of the truth of why we are as we are. Obviously it requires a special venue to share on this level which must become private. The great awakening ideas of real philosophy and the essence of religion must be hated by the dominant personality. They threaten its life and must corrupt the youth of Athens so such depth must be prevented by more satisfying imagination.

What do you mean by "from the beginning"?

From when did "jesus" know he was to be killed?

And IF "jesus" knew he was going to be killed for what he way saying, then WHY did he just NOT have the patience to wait and LEARN how to communicate better with human beings, so that he could be understood FULLY?

This would be hard to explain but what if what took place yesterday repeats in NOW as eternal recurrence? Then it is known in higher consciousness. Jesus mission was to consciously experience the worst man has to offer mechanically for the sake of the Resurrection. Don’t ask me to explain that. These ideas cannot be explained. They have to be lived in order to understand them in the real meaning of the word “understand”.

Until you tell me WHY pondering what they said is a dangerous subject I may NEVER know.

To me pondering such things is NOT a dangerous subject at all. In fact, it has now become more curiously exciting and more interesting.

Yes, considering questions superficially from the point of view of our acquired personalities is exciting and interesting. But when it becomes sincere and such ideas threaten our personality, then they are dangerous as previously explained.

WHY MUST 'you', human beings, continually be cruel AND hypocritical?

Plato explained this in the Chariot analogy. The driver is pulled by two horses. The white one representing our higher parts work well. The dark horse represents our lower parts which have become out of balance and corrupt so pull the chariot down towards the earth. Our task is to learn how they are corrupt and how to cure a sick horse.

So EITHER there is 'peace' or there is 'cruel hypocrisy'. There can NOT be BOTH at the same time. So, which one is it?

We live in cycles both as individuals and within society. We are capable of both the greatest compassion and the most abhorrent atrocities. This absurdity is called normal. It is the human condition and all attempts to consciously confront it except by a small minority must be hated and considered insulting or meaningless..

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:01 pm**

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:58 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:45 pm Dam

Jesus is a son of man. Within the dream of separation. A dream within God's infinite mind where he dreams of being a man.
Dreaming is for fallen man. Why associate it with the consciousness of the ineffable?

Awakening has nothing to do with ''escapism'' . Awakening is about being totally present without fear and being obedient only to God's will which in turn benefits all mankind. Because you can only change yourself not the world, and so only when your own house is in order this ''inner peace'' will automatically impact every person around you, including animals and all of nature, because nature is already awake, it's just waiting for man to awaken too. But the heretic has to die, that's the only sacrifice here. Nothing is ever lost in silence.
Awakening is one thing but imagining awakening is another. The seeker of truth soon experientially verifies that they are the wretched man described by Paul in Romans 7. So rather than imagining awakening they are willing to admit why they are as they are and have that as the starting point in the desire to become a conscious human being capable of conscious action rather than being limited to the responses of a reacting creature

Imagination takes the place of consciousness. Escapist imagining and consciousness are mutually exclusive. Human consciousness is absent where imagination is dominant and dreaming is absent in the presence of conscious attention. God as the conscious origin of our universe cannot be a dreamer denying consciousness..
Nick, thanks for the response, but I have absolutely no idea what the heck you are going on about.

.

I know.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:58 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:45 pm Dam

Dreaming is for fallen man. Why associate it with the consciousness of the ineffable?

Awakening is one thing but imagining awakening is another. The seeker of truth soon experientially verifies that they are the wretched man described by Paul in Romans 7. So rather than imagining awakening they are willing to admit why they are as they are and have that as the starting point in the desire to become a conscious human being capable of conscious action rather than being limited to the responses of a reacting creature

Imagination takes the place of consciousness. Escapist imagining and consciousness are mutually exclusive. Human consciousness is absent where imagination is dominant and dreaming is absent in the presence of conscious attention. God as the conscious origin of our universe cannot be a dreamer denying consciousness..

Nick, thanks for the response, but I have absolutely no idea what the heck you are going on about.
I know. I'm not being critical but if our creator lives by imgagination and just creates according to temporary whims, my interest in the meaning and purpose of the universe and man within it is meaningless. For example I believe as Simone did. I've learned it from different sources but the belief in the natural connection between sciencea and religion for the seeker of truth is the same

I believe that one identical thought is to be found—expressed very precisely and with only slight differences of modality—in. . .Pythagoras, Plato, and the Greek Stoics. . .in the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita; in the Chinese Taoist writings and. . .Buddhism. . .in the dogmas of the Christian faith and in the writings of the greatest Christian mystics. . .I believe that this thought is the truth, and that it today requires a modern and Western form of expression. That is to say, it should be expressed through the only approximately good thing we can call our own, namely science. This is all the less difficult because it is itself the origin of science. Simone Weil….Simone Pétrement, Simone Weil: A Life, Random House, 1976, p. 488
If our species survive technology science will eventually prove the necessity for a conscious source for creation. Of course efforts in that direction will be ridiculed and hated by both blind believers and blind deniers. I prefer to learn from the people of reason who have gone beyond the defense of blind belief or blind denial. They are not popular in the world today but they are there. That is the important thing. The influence leading towards an evolving rather than devolving future is in the World.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:18 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm Age

I do NOT understand HOW nor WHY the Truly OPEN clarifying question; 'Why do 'you', human beings, even hate each "other" for anyway?' is a "dangerous question", NOR do I understand HOW nor WHY asking a clarifying question would get people kicked out of philosophy sites. So can you explain your response here? Also, why can that question be pursued in ONLY a superficial way?

If 'you', an individual human being, hates "others", then why NOT just answer Honestly why 'you' hate "others"? It REALLY is just that SIMPLE.
Have you ever wondered why Christ used parables? Why didn’t he just speak plainly? As I said this is a dangerous question which is why it cannot be raised where it isn’t wanted most of all in secular philosophy sites. You would think that philosophy by definition would welcome the essential questions of the heart which are the basis of philosophy. Not with secularized philosophy. That is why Plato’s cave cannot be discussed in depth. It raises questions which threaten human defense mechanisms. These questions raise such negativity that a thread is closed down and the person continually raising such questions must be banned. Secular philosophy sites are useful to learn about resistance but its depth must be limited to support of blind denial which so often expresses itself as hate.

IF "jesus" used parables so he would not be judged, ridiculed, and punished, or for any other reason, then SO WHAT?

So, when you say "dangerous" are you just referring to being banned from a forum?

If yes, then just because you have may have been banned from other sites, then that does NOT mean you will get banned from this site.

I KNOW full well of 'trying to' communicate with 'you', human beings', in a way that does NOT "upset the apple cart to much", as they say. This is because adult human beings do NOT like thee Truth of things and the Honesty about the WRONG that each one of 'you' DO.

The fear is just too strong in ALL of 'you' now, when this is written. And the only way you adults deal with being exposed for the Truth of what you do is to ignore, reject, ridicule, punish, and/or kill those who bring to light the Truth of things.

But the so called "danger" of revealing thee Truth of things only makes doing so MORE fun and exciting, and there is absolutely NOTHING to fear at all.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm
"Grace fills empty spaces, but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it We must continually suspend the work of the imagination in filling the void within ourselves."

"In no matter what circumstances, if the imagination is stopped from pouring itself out, we have a void (the poor in spirit). In no matter what circumstances... imagination can fill the void. This is why the average human beings can become prisoners, slaves, prostitutes, and pass thru no matter what suffering without being purified."

"That is why we fly from the inner void, since God might steal into it. It is not the pursuit of pleasure and the aversion for effort which causes sin, but fear of God. We know that we cannot see him face to face without dying, and we do not want to die."
Simone Weil -- Gravity and Grace

But the FACE of God is been LOOKED AT RIGHT HERE and NOW. Most of 'you', human beings, just can NOT SEE It, although It is STARING at you RIGHT NOW.

Also, 'you' can ONLY SEE God face-to-face when there is consciousness within that body . After the body stops breathing and pumping blood NOTHING will be SEEN.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmOur personality rather than our essence lives our life for us. The great questions of philosophy and the essence of religion are directed towards our essence. This is why Christ spoke in parables. They are designed much like a Zen koan to get past our personality and intrigue our essence.

Well up to now those parables have not worked to well. Just explaining HOW to discover and SEE what IS, for what It REALLY IS, may have been a better way to go. But each to their own.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmWhere we are born with our essence we acquire the defense mechanisms of our personality. That is why it must die in the presence of the truth of higher consciousness. It doesn’t want to die so whatever offers the possibility of the realistic experience of unwanted questions must be hated. It is an understandable defense mechanism the seeker of truth must outgrow.

I am NOT sure about 'you', BUT God what IS is ALREADY KNOWN. It REALLY is that SIMPLE.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmJesus and Socrates both had to be killed since they represented influential humanity with the power to awaken. Such awakening means the death of our acquired defense mechanisms so we have this struggle between the power of essential truth against the power of the lie

If 'you' have that struggle then so be it. But I certainly do NOT have that struggle at all.

Have you ever heard me suggesting that it is better to be Truly Honest ALWAYS?

If you had, and you had ever done it, then you will KNOW and FEEL that there is absolutely NO struggle at all. Just like there are absolutely NO problems at all either.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmThe only way to stop hating is through awakening to the truth of what we are and why the human condition compels us to live in the unnatural state of imagination.

So what is the truth of what 'we' ARE?

Do you KNOW yet?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm But since such knowledge threatens the dominant personality which governs life in Plato’s cave it is only possible for the small minority willing to sacrifice defense mechanisms in pursuit of the truth of why we are as we are.

Are you absolutely 100% sure of this?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmObviously it requires a special venue to share on this level which must become private.

If you BELIEVE that this is the case, then do you want to go "private" with me?

The great awakening ideas of real philosophy and the essence of religion must be hated by the dominant personality. They threaten its life and must corrupt the youth of Athens so such depth must be prevented by more satisfying imagination.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm
What do you mean by "from the beginning"?

From when did "jesus" know he was to be killed?

And IF "jesus" knew he was going to be killed for what he way saying, then WHY did he just NOT have the patience to wait and LEARN how to communicate better with human beings, so that he could be understood FULLY?
This would be hard to explain but what if what took place yesterday repeats in NOW as eternal recurrence?

Then it just repeats in NOW as eternal recurrence. Could it be any thing else?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmThen it is known in higher consciousness. Jesus mission was to consciously experience the worst man has to offer mechanically for the sake of the Resurrection. Don’t ask me to explain that. These ideas cannot be explained.

But ALL of this is ALREADY KNOWN, just learning HOW to explain it ALL so that it is ALL FULLY UNDERSTOOD just takes some time learn.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmThey have to be lived in order to understand them in the real meaning of the word “understand”.

Once 'you' understand, understanding, then ALL of these little issues just fall into place, naturally.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm
Until you tell me WHY pondering what they said is a dangerous subject I may NEVER know.

To me pondering such things is NOT a dangerous subject at all. In fact, it has now become more curiously exciting and more interesting.
Yes, considering questions superficially from the point of view of our acquired personalities is exciting and interesting. But when it becomes sincere and such ideas threaten our personality, then they are dangerous as previously explained.

If a person is WANTING to HOLD ONTO their personality, then that is fair enough. But I have informed numerous times ALREADY about HOW to change, for the better, so that the Truth of things can be SEEN, almost immediately. Letting go of one's self (the personality) is a very SIMPLE and very EASY thing to do, as I have been explaining for a while now in this forum.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm
WHY MUST 'you', human beings, continually be cruel AND hypocritical?
Plato explained this in the Chariot analogy.

But I am NOT asking "plato". I am asking 'you'.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmThe driver is pulled by two horses. The white one representing our higher parts work well. The dark horse represents our lower parts which have become out of balance and corrupt so pull the chariot down towards the earth. Our task is to learn how they are corrupt and how to cure a sick horse.

ALL of this is FULLY UNDERSTOOD when 'you' learn HOW the Mind and the brain work, which, by the way, is also a very SIMPLE and EASY thing to learn AND understand. That is; once you have the KNOW-HOW.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm
So EITHER there is 'peace' or there is 'cruel hypocrisy'. There can NOT be BOTH at the same time. So, which one is it?
We live in cycles both as individuals and within society. We are capable of both the greatest compassion and the most abhorrent atrocities.

VERY TRUE. So, WHY do 'you', the individual adult human being, do things that are the most abhorrent atrocities or just plain WRONG?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pmThis absurdity is called normal.

Then IF it is "normal", then you would NOT want to do any thing abnormal would you?

Using this favorite word "normal" has been a very common attempt at "justifying" adult human beings WRONG behaviors for countless years or centuries now.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 pm It is the human condition and all attempts to consciously confront it except by a small minority must be hated and considered insulting or meaningless..

It is NOT a matter of MUST BE hated, et cetera. The use of the term "MUST BE" is just another favorite attempt of adult human beings to "justify" the WRONG that they continually keep doing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:42 pm**

Age

IF "jesus" used parables so he would not be judged, ridiculed, and punished, or for any other reason, then SO WHAT?

Jesus’ mission was to awaken those capable to the reality of the human condition in the light of the potential for human being. Of course Jesus knew he would be ridiculed, crucified and experience whatever delights men of the world could come up with. Parables were used to communicate the message to our essence not from any fear but for the sake of his mission

So, when you say "dangerous" are you just referring to being banned from a forum?

If yes, then just because you have may have been banned from other sites, then that does NOT mean you will get banned from this site.

I‘m not banned since I am not a rule breaker. The great ideas I refer to are banned. You refer to what those humans do as though somehow you are not in Plato’s cave with the rest of humanity. As soon as the great ideas such as those within Plato’s cave analogy are suggested to apply to us personally they must be rejected and banned. People can discuss Plato’s cave as an observer and refer to what those humans do. But once they include themselves with what humans do it is offensive and must be banned.

The secular personality by definition cannot accept qualities of consciousness greater than Man in the world. Naturally it is offensive for the secular mind to contemplate the human condition producing the results in the world you are aware of which also exist in you. A secularist by definition cannot accept the possibility that it is only through the help of higher consciousness from beyond the limitations of Plato’s cave and the world that the necessary help for human being becomes possible. To do so opens the question of the limitations of qualities of consciousness and finally the dreaded G word.

All this is why serious discussion pertaining to philosophy as the love of wisdom must be banned in the world and online in which secularism is dominant. It is too disruptive for people educated to believe they already have the facts necessary to make wisdom irrelevant.

I KNOW full well of 'trying to' communicate with 'you', human beings', in a way that does NOT "upset the apple cart to much", as they say. This is because adult human beings do NOT like thee Truth of things and the Honesty about the WRONG that each one of 'you' DO.

Since I am part of “you, human beings” and apparently you are not, what are you?

Nick_A wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:58 pm
The only way to stop hating is through awakening to the truth of what we are and why the human condition compels us to live in the unnatural state of imagination.

So what is the truth of what 'we' ARE?

Do you KNOW yet?

The truth of what we are is that we are not ONE; we are many. Man’s being on earth is a plurality in which these parts live in opposition.

Nick_A wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:58 pm
But since such knowledge threatens the dominant personality which governs life in Plato’s cave it is only possible for the small minority willing to sacrifice defense mechanisms in pursuit of the truth of why we are as we are.

Are you absolutely 100% sure of this?

Yes

This is where the process of self knowledge begins. It is the experiential verification that we are a plurality with the potential for inner unity. As Socrates said “I know nothing.” Without this foundation all these new age fantasies are the natural result

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:52 pm**

You are God that has temporarily forgotten Self, in the same way a human can forget the body and the 3D realm while engrossed in a movie or video game.

In order to remember you must abide in/as thought free Awareness. Delve deeply into the space between thoughts.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:24 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:01 pm
I know.

There is only GOD and God is Everything and Nothing. God is just another word for Consciousness.

Our thoughts, ideas, desires are not generated by us, and yet they appear to define who we are. You can claim them as your thoughts but they are obviously something that you have no control of and if you have no control how can they be claimed as yours.

You have no control of them because you are not of consciousness, consciousness is of you. Being of consciousness just means that you are self defining, you have choice in all matters pertaining to you. Your feelings, your thoughts, your ideas, your intelligence level, your desires, your physical attributes and abilities. All of these things are defined by consciousness and so is this you that you THINK you are...consciousness is of you.

All these thoughts bubble up from the depths of consciousness and then dissolve again without a trace, so too is the idea of this you, just another thought in consciousness that appears, lingers for a while, then disappears without a trace. You are not this consciousness, this consciousness is you.

Therefore there is no you. Only 'This' Consciousness.There is nothing that can be done to achieve knowing, either there is knowing or there's not.From another perspective, There is no one to achieve knowing, nothing to be known.All is as equally true as untrue.

I've heard it said leave the sleepers alone, they will wake up in their own good time, there is an eternity to do it in, so no rush really. Besides, that's part of the whole play, no one to awaken unless one is asleep.

What is so very simple that a child can understand it doesn't need to be made complicated.

Jesus says: Unless you become as Little Children, you will not enter into My Kingdom of My God.

We go on collecting knowledge, opinions, but deep down we remain the same, nothing changes.
We just go on painting our personality on the surface. No amount of paint added to the screen of consciousness will ever defile the what lies beneath the screen of consciousness, appearances are so superficial. What is real lay beyond or beneath the surface level, and that's the real under-standing. And this truth is within all of us, for there is only GOD.

.

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