For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
Then it's not empirical, is it? It's just some idiot making up data.
Is it the experience of the phenomena changing or the phenomena themselves?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 pmThen it's not empirical, is it? It's just some idiot making up data.
The test is pulled out of thin air, hence the corresponding results are made up data.
Is it the experience of the phenomena changing or the phenomena themselves?
Both, as all change is a constant boundary of change for some other phenomena. Even change is relativistically constant.
You cannot blame empiricism for the entropic nature of reality.
Actually you can because it fails to take into account the dual nature of negentropy.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:10 pmLogik wrote:You.
peacegirl wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:05 pm Everything would be different. There would be very few accidents, the economic system would provide economic security without anyone desiring to cheat the system, there will be very few cases of adultery, children will love going to school, everyone will be treated with respect, there will be no more terrorism and no need for prisons when people stop doing things that hurt others. Do you want more?I forgot to add, no more war, one of the most important things.Logik wrote:No. That's enough. I like it.
This knowledge has to be confirmed. It's amazing how everything takes a 180 turn. Everything redolent of blame must be removed. This is explained in the economic chapter. This new world will require a transition period where people will become citizens and, once they do, they will no longer be bound by the laws of their country, but...they will be bound by a divine law that will prevent them from ever desiring to strike a first blow of hurt to anyone.Logik wrote:What do we need to DO to get there?
You're asking me to explain the entire book, which is impossible. I'll give you this excerpt that may help a little.Logik wrote:I see. What does this "transition" entail? What is it that we need to change?
Let us now review the first two steps of this Great Transition because they
hold the key to lasting peace.
Step one is for the knowledge that man’s will is not free to be
translated into every language and disseminated throughout the earth.
When this is accomplished, every bit of tacit blame must be removed
so that any nation wishing to disarm can do so without fear of being
attacked. Step two is the disarming of all weapons, including the
weapons of mass destruction. As we extend our basic principle, Thou
Shall Not Blame (which God, not me, has given to mankind), war can
be prevented but it is important to remember that the chief
representatives of every nation (i.e., the heads of state) must be the
first group to take the examination and sign the agreement in order
for the Great Transition to begin. This will allow new citizens to be
free from any further blame by their respective governments and will
prevent any justification to strike a first blow.
Please understand that
this does not imply the premature discharge of troops which could
leave a threatened country open to attack. It should be obvious that
the transition to this new world must take place on a gradual basis
because the government cannot remove the possibility of punishment
as a necessary condition of the environment until every person
throughout the world receives his guarantee and passes an
examination to prove that he understands what it means that man’s
will is not free, that is, understands the two-sided equation, what
constitutes a first blow, and who has the right-of-way when desires
conflict. Those who have not passed the examination will be treated
like non-citizens, consequently, they will still be bound by the laws
that are in existence. Only non-citizens could desire to strike a first
blow, therefore until they pass their examination — and this they will
be anxious to do — they will be controlled by the laws of their country
and the combined citizens of the world. Each country will retain its
armed forces which will be reduced in just proportion as people
gradually begin making the transition from non-citizenship to
citizenship. This will be a precautionary measure to control the
non-citizens, if needed, and will act as a guide to the citizens who are
placed above them.
As the citizen population begins to increase (it
doesn’t matter which country we are referring to because everyone
throughout the world will be taking the examination and becoming
citizens), the non-citizen population will decrease. Once again, this
does not mean leaving the world open to attack. The police and
military forces will be reduced in just proportion as the citizens
increase, which will allow for a peaceful transition. All weapons will
slowly be destroyed as the non-citizen population begins to decrease.
This reduction in arms will allow the transition to get under way
without the possibility of further wars because the very people who
have the power to start one will be stopped by the guarantee which
denies them any justification, and by the realization that there will be
no retaliation by those who will be compelled to turn the other cheek
for their satisfaction. A non-citizen moves away from libel because of
the laws. A citizen will move away from it because he cannot find
satisfaction in hurting anyone when he knows he will never be blamed.
With our basic principle to guide us — together with the removal of
advance blame — it is really not difficult to put a permanent end to
war, crime, inflation, and all the other evils of our economic world.
But bear in mind that these weapons are destroyed not because they
are forms of tacit blame but only because with the aid of this slide rule
we are able to see, for the first time, what is truly better for ourselves.
By turning the other cheek Gandhi and his people demonstrated how
they were able to prevent the second cheek from being struck,
although many lives were lost. By revealing the knowledge that man’s
will is not free and what this actually means, each individual makes
known in advance that he is turning his cheek no matter what is done
to him because he cannot find satisfaction in blaming another for
doing what he is compelled to do, even if it means a terrible hurt to
himself, which mathematically prevents his first cheek from being
struck because there is no way satisfaction can be gotten.
Once this knowledge is disseminated throughout the planet and
everyone has become a citizen of the new world, there will be a
countdown, and when 0 is reached all remaining weapons that are
designed to hurt, kill, or maim, or to prevent people from doing what
they have every right to do, will be destroyed immediately without the
slightest fear of being harmed as a consequence. The development of
new weapons will come to a halt since the armed forces will no longer
be necessary as a means of defense.
For the very first time in
recorded history all of the world’s borders including ports, railroads,
airports, etc., will be open without the specter of terrorism. There will
be no more need for checkpoints that prohibit citizens from entering
their country of choice when there is no possibility that anyone can
get hurt. In our present world of free will it is not difficult to imagine
what would happen if suddenly all laws, government, and forms of
punishment were withdrawn. Every potential thief and even those
who never thought about stealing would have a field day, and nobody
would be safe. Sectarian violence would increase causing extreme
chaos and destruction. We can only begin to imagine what an
aggressive country would do if there were no other powers to control
the desire to spread whatever that country desired to spread. But the
moment mankind understands what it means that will is not free
which prevents the very things for which government came into
existence, it proves, beyond a shadow of doubt, the reality of God —
this amazing mathematical power. Everything was timed so perfectly
that you must catch your breath in absolute amazement when you
contemplate the magnificence of this mathematical equation which
includes not only the solar system and the exquisite relationship that
exists between the planets, but man himself and all the evil and
ignorance that ever existed.
No. I am not asking you to explain the book.
And the technocrats are not visionaries?Logik wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:35 pmNo. I am not asking you to explain the book.
All I am asking you to explain is this. What mechanisms will be in place to prevent ME from:
* building a bomb and blowing up an airplane (terrorism)
* hacking a bank and stealing millions of dollars (bank robbery)
You are trying to sell us utopia (like you and every snake oil salesman before you) but you can't give us any specifics as to HOW and WHY it would work.
All you are saying is "trust me - this is the way". Like every other failed visionary before you.
There were follow up papers. Not just Libet's own work.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:37 pm Libet's?
I have, many times, well before today.
Did you read anything accessible through my posted google link?
The how and why is "acceptance".
So is your beef with empiricism or with people who lie about doing empiricism?
So you are heading towards renouncing all structure (logic).
OK. Now you have crossed over into the realm of philosophical masturbation and interpretation.
I am not saying "trust me, this is the way." And I'm not trying to sell you anything without proof. I'm trying to explain how this new world can actually take place. It's not pie in the sky wishful thinking. What prevents someone from building a bomb and blowing up an airplane or hacking a bank and stealing millions of dollars is because he won't have the necessary justification to do so. Only under certain conditions can a person desire to do these things in the direction of greater satisfaction. When it gives less satisfaction to do this rather than not to build bombs, then our problem is solved. Do you see what happens when you refuse to read what I offered? You can't know because you haven't understood the two-sided equation, or his proof of determinism. If will was free we could not achieve this new world because we could choose what is worse for ourselves when something is better is offered as an alternative, but this is impossible. Choosing what gives us greater satisfaction from moment to moment is an invariable law of our nature.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:36 pmAnd the technocrats are not visionaries?Logik wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:35 pmNo. I am not asking you to explain the book.
All I am asking you to explain is this. What mechanisms will be in place to prevent ME from:
* building a bomb and blowing up an airplane (terrorism)
* hacking a bank and stealing millions of dollars (bank robbery)
You are trying to sell us utopia (like you and every snake oil salesman before you) but you can't give us any specifics as to HOW and WHY it would work.
All you are saying is "trust me - this is the way". Like every other failed visionary before you.
If you can't demonstrate it empirically - it' kind of is....
What justification does one need to do things except "It's fun", and "I want to" or "I am bored".
Yes, indeed.
Great! So you need to understand what motivates people and gives people satisfaction.
Oh goodie! Just so it happens that I am rather well versed in proof theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_theory
And who would be offering this thing to the non-free will?
Do you think there's a RIGHT way for the world to be? And that it is WRONG now? How do you know? Might you have a limited scope of understanding for how and why things are the way they are... and if so, how do you know that you know what is needed and how to "fix" it? How many people try to "fix" it in endless various ways? How are you different, and why do you like to focus on that? Aren't you really just entertaining yourself on your own trip like everyone else is doing?