Philosophy Now Forum

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:58 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:20 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:13 am The highest value of progressivism is not what the state offers. Its highest value is yet to happen. That's the point, Nick. Think about it - progressivism ... progress ... not standing still. Changing, improving, refining, reassessing.

Good grief. That’s like saying: Hillary Clinton is brilliant. Brilliance, think about it … etc.

Nonsense. No relation whatsoever. A silly over-emotional response. Take a deep breath, Walker.

The entire point of progressivism is obviously progress. The point of conservatism is to slow progress, presumably to allow systems to adapt. The tension and the competition between these, and other, concerns sculpts public policy.

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

There are universal laws which explain why every process on earth turns in cycles. There are no straight lines in nature. It is the same with Man on earth and all their lofty progressive aspirations. When Man is left to his own devices, secular progressivism must over time produce its opposite. It doesn’t matter how intolerant and insulted progressives become, the result is the same. It is the natural result of universal law which creates these cycles.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:08 am

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:58 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:20 pm
Good grief. That’s like saying: Hillary Clinton is brilliant. Brilliance, think about it … etc.

Nonsense. No relation whatsoever. A silly over-emotional response. Take a deep breath, Walker.

The entire point of progressivism is obviously progress. The point of conservatism is to slow progress, presumably to allow systems to adapt. The tension and the competition between these, and other, concerns sculpts public policy.

Not at all. The good grief was for your lack of respect for the intelligence of human beings. Quite uncharacteristic.

Simply because some grifters appropriate a label does not confer the qualities of that label upon such clever antics.

What if they called themselves The Gods rather than The Progressives.

Would they be Gods?

If they exhibit Godlike powers of making what was, not, then perhaps.
But I can do that with a cheeseburger.

You are looking at this in a political rather than philosophical way. Not interested in the games these days, sorry.

Throughout humanity's history progressivism and conservatism have done battle - often it's a matter of young upstarts looking to make changes and old farts keen to keep the status quo that suits them better. As Nick noted, these things are cyclical. Every generation has those same conflicts of interests. Yet, with each generation we build experience and knowledge beyond that of prior generations, both genetically and memetically; progress is inevitable. In a dynamic world we either change and adapt or we fail.

Nick_A wrote:

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

There are universal laws which explain why every process on earth turns in cycles. There are no straight lines in nature. It is the same with Man on earth and all their lofty progressive aspirations. When Man is left to his own devices, secular progressivism must over time produce its opposite. It doesn’t matter how intolerant and insulted progressives become, the result is the same. It is the natural result of universal law which creates these cycles.

Aren't you missing the implication of Ecclesiastes that it is wisdom i.e. reason which we use to decide which time is which which season is which?

As Greta says " In a dynamic world we either change and adapt or we fail."

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:57 am

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:08 am

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:58 am
Nonsense. No relation whatsoever. A silly over-emotional response. Take a deep breath, Walker.

The entire point of progressivism is obviously progress. The point of conservatism is to slow progress, presumably to allow systems to adapt. The tension and the competition between these, and other, concerns sculpts public policy.

Not at all. The good grief was for your lack of respect for the intelligence of human beings. Quite uncharacteristic.

Simply because some grifters appropriate a label does not confer the qualities of that label upon such clever antics.

What if they called themselves The Gods rather than The Progressives.

Would they be Gods?

If they exhibit Godlike powers of making what was, not, then perhaps.
But I can do that with a cheeseburger.

You are looking at this in a political rather than philosophical way. Not interested in the games these days, sorry.

Throughout humanity's history progressivism and conservatism have done battle - often it's a matter of young upstarts looking to make changes and old farts keen to keep the status quo that suits them better. As Nick noted, these things are cyclical. Every generation has those same conflicts of interests. Yet, with each generation we build experience and knowledge beyond that of prior generations, both genetically and memetically; progress is inevitable. In a dynamic world we either change and adapt or we fail.

This is why in contrast to the Progressives, the voters elected businessman President Trump to initiate some innovative progress, in contrast to the retrogressive, propagandizing, politically-focused, and intolerant policies of the Progressives that reflect a world view of big government, centrist totalitarianism that results in the bastardization of language, of which there are many examples such as the word Progressive, and also results in censorship.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:50 am Nick_A wrote:

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

There are universal laws which explain why every process on earth turns in cycles. There are no straight lines in nature. It is the same with Man on earth and all their lofty progressive aspirations. When Man is left to his own devices, secular progressivism must over time produce its opposite. It doesn’t matter how intolerant and insulted progressives become, the result is the same. It is the natural result of universal law which creates these cycles.

Aren't you missing the implication of Ecclesiastes that it is wisdom i.e. reason which we use to decide which time is which which season is which?

As Greta says " In a dynamic world we either change and adapt or we fail."

"Deciding" that it's summertime, and calling it summertime, does not make it summertime.

However, a wise person will recognize summertime.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:15 am

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:58 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:20 pm
Good grief. That’s like saying: Hillary Clinton is brilliant. Brilliance, think about it … etc.

Nonsense. No relation whatsoever. A silly over-emotional response. Take a deep breath, Walker.

The entire point of progressivism is obviously progress. The point of conservatism is to slow progress, presumably to allow systems to adapt. The tension and the competition between these, and other, concerns sculpts public policy.

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

There are universal laws which explain why every process on earth turns in cycles. There are no straight lines in nature. It is the same with Man on earth and all their lofty progressive aspirations. When Man is left to his own devices, secular progressivism must over time produce its opposite. It doesn’t matter how intolerant and insulted progressives become, the result is the same. It is the natural result of universal law which creates these cycles.

No. Wisdom on a large scale requires a quality of knowledge and the ability for conscious choice we do not have making wisdom meaningless. As Socrates said: "I know nothing." Sisyphus keeps pushing the boulder up the hill until it falls back down. Progressive dictates or intolerance won't change it. Since we are as we are, everything is as it is.

Ecclesiastes 1

Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:22 pmThis is why in contrast to the Progressives, the voters elected businessman President Trump to initiate some innovative progress, in contrast to the retrogressive, propagandizing, politically-focused, and intolerant policies of the Progressives that reflect a world view of big government, centrist totalitarianism that results in the bastardization of language, of which there are many examples such as the word Progressive, and also results in censorship.

I might leave you to it until you have calmed down.

You're confusing pin-pointed accuracy in defining Progressives, as it pertains to the word progress, as a lack of calm.

If I was playing your game, I could just as easily confuse your error of isolating word meanings from reality, as moronic, and advise you to start thinking.

I said I'm not interested in your political propagandising.

Bye.

It's the hypocrites who claim association with the word progress by calling themselves Progressives.

I didn't make it up.

You're only running away from reality.

I said I'm not interested in your political propagandising.

Bye.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:42 pm It's the hypocrites who claim association with the word progress by calling themselves Progressives.

I didn't make it up.

You're only running away from reality.

Careful, or you'll earn the wrath of secular intolerance. If a progressive proclaims that 2+2 is now 5, it is not up to you to question. It is an insult. Socrates wanted people to experience reality so as to learn from it and look what happened to him. He was accused of corrupting the youth of Athens. Lord knows what you'll be accused of in association with modern political philosophy.

Walker wrote:

(Belinda)Aren't you missing the implication of Ecclesiastes that it is wisdom i.e. reason which we use to decide which time is which which season is which?

As Greta says " In a dynamic world we either change and adapt or we fail."


(Walker)"Deciding" that it's summertime, and calling it summertime, does not make it summertime.

However, a wise person will recognize summertime.

Yes, Walker. Don't you know that some people control others by telling them lies?

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:47 pm
However, a wise person will recognize summertime.

...when skin cancer is most common!

The mistake here is that conservatism and progressivism are wrongly assumed to be distilled in the two major parties, each of which are deeply conservative with various "progressive" aspects.

However, in the blinkered tribal world of internet bickering, claiming that black is white if you can find enough backup. Here the backwards claim is that the religious, which has keenly oppressed, and often killed, the non-religions - declared to be heathens, infidels and apostates. There is not oppression of theists - their foot remains firmly on the threat of the non-religious, clinging firmly to the levers of power in most western nations and all developing countries.

No matter what problems are caused the religious by the non religious, it is dwarfed by religious intolerance, with continued denigration and oppression of the non-religious, and in some cultures, killing. This thread is just a small example of how the religious reflexively insult and misrepresent the non-religious. So it goes.