Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote:The earth does not know it is an earth. The earth cannot look at itself to know it exists.

Which would be important to point out if there were a requirement for the Earth to know it exists. But there isn't.

sthitapragya wrote:

Reflex wrote:

sthitapragya wrote: Where is the anthropomorphizing? You call God existence itself. And you then give existence consciousness and awareness. In fact, you are the one anthropomorphizing existence and therefore God. And that still does not explain the existence of existence and simply raises one more question. Why does God exist? I am simply pointing out to you that had you left the question at "why does existence exist", you would not have to deal with "why does God exist" too.

Your concerns have already been addressed. I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself.

No, they have not. You know it and I know it. You answer is "just because". You just don't want to say it now that you have yourself said that "just because" is an irrational answer.

I went back and checked and your answer to this question was that God exists just because the existence of God explains why energy is just so. But it does not explain why God exists or why God is just so.

Reframing the question is not going to change the answers.

Reflex wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:

Reflex wrote: Your concerns have already been addressed. I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself.

No, they have not. You know it and I know it. You answer is "just because". You just don't want to say it now that you have yourself said that "just because" is an irrational answer.

I went back and checked and your answer to this question was that God exists just because the existence of God explains why energy is just so. But it does not explain why God exists or why God is just so.

Reframing the question is not going to change the answers.

I will take that as a cop out.

sthitapragya wrote:

Reflex wrote:

sthitapragya wrote: No, they have not. You know it and I know it. You answer is "just because". You just don't want to say it now that you have yourself said that "just because" is an irrational answer.

I went back and checked and your answer to this question was that God exists just because the existence of God explains why energy is just so. But it does not explain why God exists or why God is just so.

Reframing the question is not going to change the answers.

I will take that as a cop out.

Suit yourself. You're not going to let you goad me into answering the stuff over and over.

Reflex wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:

Reflex wrote: Reframing the question is not going to change the answers.

I will take that as a cop out.

Suit yourself. You're not going to let you goad me into answering the stuff over and over.

What answer? There is none.

Terrapin Station wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:The earth does not know it is an earth. The earth cannot look at itself to know it exists.

Which would be important to point out if there were a requirement for the Earth to know it exists. But there isn't.

So the earth wouldn't require to know it is a living organism.

That would then also imply there is no requirement for any human body part to know they are living.

So what or who knows life exists..is alive?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
In other words, as soon as I imagine a thing, it pops into existence?
This might be appealing to you, but sadly it is not born out by the fact of experience.

No, the thing doesn't pop into existence, there are no things in existence. Things are thoughts. Thoughts are always past or future tense. They appear and disappear in the ever present now which is a thoughtless blank state of nothingness.. which has to be, and is known as the eternal NOW... without this stateless state no thought could or would ever arise. The present is ever this unchanging steady yielding, relaxed state of allowing...where what will be will be in constant spontaneous flux.

Only thoughts pop in and out of existence....the world exists in the ever present moment only. The present moment does not pop in and out of existence. The present immediate moment is always NOW ..it lives Now and only now...past and future do not exist except as a thought which is not a real actuality.

Now is just this endless space in which every thing appears and disappears within it. Some call it space, others call it mind, or awareness. And that's all there is here happening, this is not a thing...it is that in which things appear and disappear as thoughts. When thought is absent, nothing is known or is happening. Life requires no thought in order to happen / live.

Only the illusory is spoken and written. To speak requires knowledge ..to write requires knowledge. Life doe not require knowledge in order to be. Knowledge is born of thought. When you live you do not think. When you think you do not live.

Thought superimposes upon reality a conceptual overlay that is illusory and not actual there.

Until one can physically find the thinker, the seer, the doer...etc etc...The world remains a dream within a dream within a dream.....

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:The earth does not know it is an earth. The earth cannot look at itself to know it exists.

Which would be important to point out if there were a requirement for the Earth to know it exists. But there isn't.

So the earth wouldn't require to know it is a living organism.

That would then also imply there is no requirement for any human body part to know they are living.

Correct (which is a nice change for once, by the way). And note that I explicitly pointed this out to you in an earlier post. I mentioned that it could have contingently been the case that we had humans, or at least something very close to them, sans mentality.

Unfortunately, this suggests that you're either not paying attention to my posts very well, or you're not understanding my comments very well.

So what or who knows life exists..is alive?

Persons do. Here, you're making the mistake of assuming that only things that are required obtain. That's not the case. Something doesn't have to be required to obtain. Things can contingently obtain, and they can contingently not obtain. Not everything that obtains does so necessarily, or by requirement.

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:The earth does not know it is an earth. The earth cannot look at itself to know it exists.

Which would be important to point out if there were a requirement for the Earth to know it exists. But there isn't.

So the earth wouldn't require to know it is a living organism.

That would then also imply there is no requirement for any human body part to know they are living.

So what or who knows life exists..is alive?

I thought you were pretending to not know.

Dontaskme wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
In other words, as soon as I imagine a thing, it pops into existence?
This might be appealing to you, but sadly it is not born out by the fact of experience.

No, the thing doesn't pop into existence, there are no things in existence. Things are thoughts. .

But nothing exists until we think them up?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
In other words, as soon as I imagine a thing, it pops into existence?
This might be appealing to you, but sadly it is not born out by the fact of experience.

No, the thing doesn't pop into existence, there are no things in existence. Things are thoughts. .

But nothing exists until we think them up?

He seems to have some sort of (fortune cookie) idealist view.

Terrapin Station wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:
No, the thing doesn't pop into existence, there are no things in existence. Things are thoughts. .

But nothing exists until we think them up?

He seems to have some sort of (fortune cookie) idealist view.

I think I read the same thing on the back of a Kellog's Cornflakes packet" "Thinkers thro' Histrah: No.4 Bishop Berkeley."

Terrapin Station wrote:
He seems to have some sort of (fortune cookie) idealist view.

Oh dear, it seems society just can't handle the fact that one can choose not to follow the idealist view but instead can actually think for oneself and take the higher view.

Dam wrote: what or who knows life exists..is alive?

Terrapin Station wrote: Persons do.

No, persons do not know anything. A person is a concept known.... this knowing of concepts is not known by the concept ...to say a concept knows, is like saying a brick wall knows it is a brick wall.


_________

Any ''thing'' known cannot know...so who or what it is that knows each concept as it arises?

Please answer the question properly?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
But nothing exists until we think them up?

We do not think, we is the thought. The thinking is the thinker itself. The thinker cannot get rid of the thought because there is only thought.

Thoughts create the thinker, the thinker doesn't create the thought..because there is no thinker. The idea there is a thinker is just more thought.

So who is aware of the thoughts as they arise?