Philosophy Now Forum

Greta wrote:

BradburyPound wrote:

Greta wrote: Quite a few people these days seem to be pondering the possibility of a subjectively eternal afterlife to explain the reported hours and days of experience during some NDEs, which would have physically occurred within a matter of minutes.

Then again, studies suggest that time dilation during dreams is due to "compression", where the least important information is omitted. This means that a dreamer jumps from significant event to significant event without necessarily including commuting, travelling, or even walking, this squeezing more events into a smaller tract of time.

Calling the narrative of dream imagining "time dilation" seem to be a mistake. In a dream there is no actual distance, not actual travel, and so as time persists on its normal course in reality there is no actual dilation of anything.

It's a subjective effect. One can experience what feels like hours of time in just a few minutes during a dream.

Imagination is not time dilation.

thedoc wrote:

Greta wrote:

BradburyPound wrote:
Calling the narrative of dream imagining "time dilation" seem to be a mistake. In a dream there is no actual distance, not actual travel, and so as time persists on its normal course in reality there is no actual dilation of anything.

It's a subjective effect. One can experience what feels like hours of time in just a few minutes during a dream.

Exactly, a very long time can be experienced subjectively in a very short time, both the NDE and eternity can be experienced in a very short time when the brain is being deprived of oxygen and hallucination are happening.

No you have this exactly backwards.

you must be an idealist without knowing it.

BradburyPound wrote: you must be an idealist without knowing it.

Goodnight, Brad.

Harbal wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: you must be an idealist without knowing it.

Goodnight, Brad.

Off for a Posh Wan.... I mean elocution lesson?

BradburyPound wrote:

thedoc wrote:

Greta wrote: It's a subjective effect. One can experience what feels like hours of time in just a few minutes during a dream.

Exactly, a very long time can be experienced subjectively in a very short time, both the NDE and eternity can be experienced in a very short time when the brain is being deprived of oxygen and hallucination are happening.

No you have this exactly backwards.

you must be an idealist without knowing it.

So you are claiming that time passes the same no matter what state the brain is in? When you have experienced it let me know what happens, till then I will take the word of those who have studied the phenomenon.

BradburyPound wrote:

Harbal wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: you must be an idealist without knowing it.

Goodnight, Brad.

Off for a Posh Wan.... I mean elocution lesson?

I don't think elocution would help his posting much.

BradburyPound wrote: I can't see how dying would suspend the laws of nature for an individual. Whilst the rest of reality simply carries on. Neither do I see how this even relates to NDEs. I'd ask you how, or what you mean in more detail, but I'm afraid you might answer.

Both NDE and the experience of an afterlife could be attributed to the brain activity right before the cessation of activity. Since time is subjective to the perception of the brain, a lot can happen in those last few moments. Dying doesn't suspend the laws of physics, but the perception of time could vary during that experience.

thedoc wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: I can't see how dying would suspend the laws of nature for an individual. Whilst the rest of reality simply carries on. Neither do I see how this even relates to NDEs. I'd ask you how, or what you mean in more detail, but I'm afraid you might answer.

Both NDE and the experience of an afterlife could be attributed to the brain activity right before the cessation of activity. Since time is subjective to the perception of the brain, a lot can happen in those last few moments. Dying doesn't suspend the laws of physics, but the perception of time could vary during that experience.

Sometimes you sound suspiciously like a 'non-believer'.

BradburyPound wrote:

Harbal wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: you must be an idealist without knowing it.

Goodnight, Brad.

Off for a Posh Wan.... I mean elocution lesson?

It's better than fish pie's avocaco fantasy.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sometimes you sound suspiciously like a 'non-believer'.

I tend to adopt the best ideas, at least in my estimation, of both in what I believe, based on my own experience. Other's experiences, I take at face value and don't try to extrapolate them into what I think they should be.

thedoc wrote:

BradburyPound wrote:
Off for a Posh Wan.... I mean elocution lesson?

I don't think elocution would help his posting much.

It's not much help with wanking either, doc.

thedoc wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: I can't see how dying would suspend the laws of nature for an individual. Whilst the rest of reality simply carries on. Neither do I see how this even relates to NDEs. I'd ask you how, or what you mean in more detail, but I'm afraid you might answer.

Both NDE and the experience of an afterlife could be attributed to the brain activity right before the cessation of activity. Since time is subjective to the perception of the brain, a lot can happen in those last few moments. Dying doesn't suspend the laws of physics, but the perception of time could vary during that experience.

Within those obvious limits I have no objection. I do feel however that even the subjective experience of time still has limits due to the simple restriction of the speed of the neural impulse, and that even if time might seem to stretch we are very much limited by the objective time that is necessary for ANY experience to occur.

thedoc wrote:

BradburyPound wrote:

thedoc wrote:
Exactly, a very long time can be experienced subjectively in a very short time, both the NDE and eternity can be experienced in a very short time when the brain is being deprived of oxygen and hallucination are happening.

No you have this exactly backwards.

you must be an idealist without knowing it.

So you are claiming that time passes the same no matter what state the brain is in? When you have experienced it let me know what happens, till then I will take the word of those who have studied the phenomenon.

Yes time passes regardless of your experience. Sorry to disappoint you. I realise that the perception of time varies, but it is inexorable.
In my view I think we tend to experience tine as a function of the fraction of our life each unit occupies.
Thus when you are two, the last year experience is half your entire life.
When you reach the age of ten the fraction (and thus the experience of a year) has dropped to a tenth.
With each passing year, each years shorter and shorter.

Nonetheless, as each child around you knows, years are along time, even if they seem short to you. So time passes no matter what state your brain is in, yes.

And you can 'take the word of those (as yet unspecified) that have studied the phenomenon' , and I'll call you the Idealist that you are, taking the definition from the cannon of philosophers over the last few 100 years.

BradburyPound wrote: And you can 'take the word of those (as yet unspecified) that have studied the phenomenon' , and I'll call you the Idealist that you are, taking the definition from the cannon of philosophers over the last few 100 years.

I will assume that you are calling me an idealist, based on the definition of philosophers, and that's OK, you can call me what you want.

In the past several years I have read or seen programs about scientists who have studied NDEs and the afterlife, but I didn't make note of who the scientists were. I was more interested in what they had discovered.

BradburyPound wrote:

thedoc wrote:

BradburyPound wrote: I can't see how dying would suspend the laws of nature for an individual. Whilst the rest of reality simply carries on. Neither do I see how this even relates to NDEs. I'd ask you how, or what you mean in more detail, but I'm afraid you might answer.

Both NDE and the experience of an afterlife could be attributed to the brain activity right before the cessation of activity. Since time is subjective to the perception of the brain, a lot can happen in those last few moments. Dying doesn't suspend the laws of physics, but the perception of time could vary during that experience.

Within those obvious limits I have no objection. I do feel however that even the subjective experience of time still has limits due to the simple restriction of the speed of the neural impulse, and that even if time might seem to stretch we are very much limited by the objective time that is necessary for ANY experience to occur.

... based on the physics we understand at this stage.