Philosophy Now Forum

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:17 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 12:06 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:10 am

What is a mental event?

Ideas and feelings are mental events. Not so sure about perceptions.

Yes, I agree, ideas are mental events, and they are not things.

But what are ideas, I've no idea, because I am the idea. Nothing, no thing, not a thing, ultimately knows itself.

But experiences can't be denied. Unlike a lump of rock , you experience.
It's true that a lump of rock, or a chair, don't exist except as ideas in the mind, but experiences indubitably happen . Some people call experiences "consciousness" however 'experiences ' is more precise.

Maybe I misunderstand you and you mean 'knows' in the sense of irrefutable objective knowledge;this would be true then that you cannot know yourself. But your private , subjective, acquaintance of and love and respect for your best self are undeniable and can't be taken from you by anyone in any way.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:09 am

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:17 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 12:06 pm
Ideas and feelings are mental events. Not so sure about perceptions.

Yes, I agree, ideas are mental events, and they are not things.

But what are ideas, I've no idea, because I am the idea. Nothing, no thing, not a thing, ultimately knows itself.

But experiences can't be denied. Unlike a lump of rock , you experience.
It's true that a lump of rock, or a chair, don't exist except as ideas in the mind, but experiences indubitably happen . Some people call experiences "consciousness" however 'experiences ' is more precise.

Maybe I misunderstand you and you mean 'knows' in the sense of irrefutable objective knowledge;this would be true then that you cannot know yourself. But your private , subjective, acquaintance of and love and respect for your best self are undeniable and can't be taken from you by anyone in any way.

Of course you experience. But an experience is prior to any experience known by you. Experiencing is all that's apparently happening, to no one.

To know you are experiencing requires two things, the experience and the experiencer. That twoness is the illusion, because actual experiencing is one unitary action.

The idea there is 'experience' known by a someone, is an idea that such a character exists, but that character can only exist in the dream of artificial illusory separation, believed to be one self, you.

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:57 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:09 am

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:17 pm

Yes, I agree, ideas are mental events, and they are not things.

But what are ideas, I've no idea, because I am the idea. Nothing, no thing, not a thing, ultimately knows itself.

But experiences can't be denied. Unlike a lump of rock , you experience.
It's true that a lump of rock, or a chair, don't exist except as ideas in the mind, but experiences indubitably happen . Some people call experiences "consciousness" however 'experiences ' is more precise.

Maybe I misunderstand you and you mean 'knows' in the sense of irrefutable objective knowledge;this would be true then that you cannot know yourself. But your private , subjective, acquaintance of and love and respect for your best self are undeniable and can't be taken from you by anyone in any way.

Of course you experience. But an experience is prior to any experience known by you. Experiencing is all that's apparently happening, to no one.

To know you are experiencing requires two things, the experience and the experiencer. That twoness is the illusion, because actual experiencing is one unitary action.

The idea there is 'experience' known by a someone, is an idea that such a character exists, but that character can only exist in the dream of artificial illusory separation, believed to be one self, you.

I think I understand what you are saying here. I agree. However I'd add that we are stuck in a relative world and can only imagine the unitary experience. E.g. this is the tragedy of true lovers that no matter how passionate and how everlasting their love they can never be the same experience as each other. By contrast I think the baby in the womb is actually the same experience as the mother.

...a fertile man may produce between 40 million and 1800 million sperm cells in total, though the majority produce between 40 and 60 million sperm cells per millilitre, giving an average total of 80 to 300 million sperm per ejaculation." the open university

This is the sort of thing that often boggles my mind. I can't help but wonder if there is a God, "what was He thinking?!"

Did God calculate the need for millions upon millions upon millions of sperm in order to assure a pregnancy? Or is God Himself embedded in the laws of nature such that He really had no choice here?

Or, if not, why do you suppose He figured on millions [even hundreds of millions] of sperm per each and every ejaculation?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:07 am ...a fertile man may produce between 40 million and 1800 million sperm cells in total, though the majority produce between 40 and 60 million sperm cells per millilitre, giving an average total of 80 to 300 million sperm per ejaculation." the open university

This is the sort of thing that often boggles my mind. I can't help but wonder if there is a God, "what was He thinking?!"

Did God calculate the need for millions upon millions upon millions of sperm in order to assure a pregnancy? Or is God Himself embedded in the laws of nature such that He really had no choice here?

Or, if not, why do you suppose He figured on millions [even hundreds of millions] of sperm per each and every ejaculation?

I daresay natural selection explains what seems on the face of it to be a waste of energy. God and nature are the same.

God / Nature is obviously a mass murdering serial killer.

All creation was sentenced to death even before it was born.

"Or, if not, why do you suppose He figured on millions [even hundreds of millions] of sperm per each and every ejaculation?"

He had to do it that way because of the way he designed everything else. The female's body rejects and attacks these cells because they are foreign, so god had a dilemma to deal with. How to get my boys in there without her defenses destroying everybody. Solution: storm the beach just like the allies did. Millions of em come in on Higgins boats... so fuckin many the germans can't kill em all. As the wave pushes up the ranks toward the machine gun nests, only the strongest spermatozoon (the Tom Hanks type) will break through to sign the treaty with the germans, giving birth to a new nation.

Fairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:04 pm God / Nature is obviously a mass murdering serial killer.

All creation was sentenced to death even before it was born.

I feel the same way. I was never the church going type. Perhaps because I didn't need to be. In my day contemporary society had seemingly conquered most of the ills that plagued our ancestors. Now I wonder if God/nature is taking its revenge.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:26 pm "Or, if not, why do you suppose He figured on millions [even hundreds of millions] of sperm per each and every ejaculation?"

He had to do it that way because of the way he designed everything else. The female's body rejects and attacks these cells because they are foreign, so god had a dilemma to deal with. How to get my boys in there without her defenses destroying everybody. Solution: storm the beach just like the allies did. Millions of em come in on Higgins boats... so fuckin many the germans can't kill em all. As the wave pushes up the ranks toward the machine gun nests, only the strongest spermatozoon (the Tom Hanks type) will break through to sign the treaty with the germans, giving birth to a new nation.

Well put.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:26 pm "Or, if not, why do you suppose He figured on millions [even hundreds of millions] of sperm per each and every ejaculation?"

He had to do it that way because of the way he designed everything else. The female's body rejects and attacks these cells because they are foreign, so god had a dilemma to deal with. How to get my boys in there without her defenses destroying everybody. Solution: storm the beach just like the allies did. Millions of em come in on Higgins boats... so fuckin many the germans can't kill em all. As the wave pushes up the ranks toward the machine gun nests, only the strongest spermatozoon (the Tom Hanks type) will break through to sign the treaty with the germans, giving birth to a new nation.

It doesn’t matter how well it’s all designed, it’s still fucked up. Pardon the pun.

It’s still a death sentence before you are even born. It’s an absolute stupid farce. But then if it’s your vibe, then whatever gets you through the abyss, your welcome.

Fairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:04 pm God / Nature is obviously a mass murdering serial killer.

All creation was sentenced to death even before it was born.

This seems to me an error in terms of point of view. "Der Tod ist gros", according to Rilke. "Death is huge". But is it as horrible from God's perspective?

OF course we are still confronted with Hell -- but perhaps we humans have invented that, or at least our conception of it.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 5:21 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:04 pm God / Nature is obviously a mass murdering serial killer.

All creation was sentenced to death even before it was born.

This seems to me an error in terms of point of view. "Der Tod ist gros", according to Rilke. "Death is huge". But is it as horrible from God's perspective?

OF course we are still confronted with Hell -- but perhaps we humans have invented that, or at least our conception of it.

The etymology of the word 'hell' refers to something preserved without light .
In the North East of Scotland they helled the potato crop to conserve it. In the English Midlands there is Hell Brook which was culverted.

Similarly 'inferno' etymologically referred to underground. The idea of inferno as a big fire was a later religious invention. Inferno is close to the Spanish 'invierno' (winter).

"Scientists may need to use nuclear weapons to defend earth from asteroid":
https://youtu.be/oyMmxzcDLoI?si=BdojREFNUnx0vqL0

Think about that. This asteroid was created by God. If He wants it to smash into earth, who are we mere mortals to deflect it? It's like those Christian denominations that refuse medical care from doctors or hospitals. Or those snake handlers among some Pentecostals. If God intends for the snake to bite them, it will, and if not, it won't.

Note to IC:

Just out of curiosity, are these True Christians?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 12:56 am "Scientists may need to use nuclear weapons to defend earth from asteroid":
https://youtu.be/oyMmxzcDLoI?si=BdojREFNUnx0vqL0

Think about that. This asteroid was created by God. If He wants it to smash into earth, who are we mere mortals to deflect it? It's like those Christian denominations that refuse medical care from doctors or hospitals. Or those snake handlers among some Pentecostals. If God intends for the snake to bite them, it will, and if not, it won't.

Note to IC:

Just out of curiosity, are these True Christians?

Do you suspect that Immanuel confuses God with the Fates?
Jesus did not confuse God with the Fates, as He argues again and again that good intentions are paramount. Good intentions transcend anything the Fates can throw at us.

"as He argues again and again that good intentions are paramount"

What if the opposite were the truth? Immortality is earned by force of will, by holding fast to one's convictions, by doing great violence when it is called for?

What if the secret is that this heaven these weaklings speak of is, in fact, a state of nothingness reached by a protracted life of self denial. Canceling oneself out like the buddha. Nihilism in its purest sense (as N described).

A recurrence of a life that becomes smaller and smaller each time it is lived until..... nothing is left.

What if the world was exactly the opposite of what you all thought it was? Is there a wager that could prepare you for such a surprise? Shirley not Pascal's. That's a death wish.