Philosophy Now Forum

Most of us grapple with morality on this side of the grave and immortality and salvation on the other side. And God and religion seem to be [by far] the path one takes in order to sustain a comforting and consoling frame of mind.

And even those who take a secular route to "the right thing to do" take it only to the grave. There's still the grim reality [for most] of oblivion.

No, for those like me, I'm willing to accept that God is one possible explanation for the existence of existence itself. And if those like IC insist it is the Christian God, I say, "show me".

Then this part:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ore_deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

For example: https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/japa ... index.html

I know this is the "ethical theory" forum and God and religion are generally explored here...philosophically.

But sooner or later the arguments come down out of the technical clouds and we are confronted with the reality of actual conflicting goods, of death and dying.

Between Dawkins & God
John Holroyd negotiates a middle way between these two much-lauded figures.

To take this example [from above] further, I would agree with Terry Eagleton in Reason, Faith and Revolution, that violent and terrorist forms of radical Islam are not primarily a religious phenomenon. The dynamic has rather to do with the development of post-colonial identities in Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and elsewhere.

The Israel/Palestine conflict perpetuates a smoldering sense of injustice that’s political, territorial and economic as much as religious. Yet this crucial perspective gets lost against a generalised moral condemnation of religion like Dawkins makes.

All this suggests is that God and religion are embodied out in particular worlds. Worlds that over time historically and across the globe culturally are ever and always evolving and changing. Especially in the world today where we [and nations] are intertwined in each other's business in a way that was simply not the case when reality [and morality] revolved largely around the village or the hamlet or the small town.

For example, so much that does unfold in the Middle East today can revolve around the oil in the ground as much anything that the ecclesiastics propagate among the masses.

To wit: https://www.google.com/search?q=is+ther ... URT-reRWmz

So when Dawkins claims, in a clearly unqualified way, that ‘religion is harmful’, this assumes we have identified what is and is not a religion.

Back to that again. In a world where some will argue that those like Sam Harris and Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins themselves practice atheism religiously. Also, how on Earth would one go about pinning down whether religion is, what, inherently or necessarily helpful or harmful. How can that not possibly be rooted subjectively in dasein?

Is Religious Belief A Matter Of Blind Faith?

I feel more sympathetic towards Dawkins’ other claim, that religious belief is a matter of blind faith, and that living by unjustified faith is unwise and to be avoided.

This only really makes sense to the extent those like Dawkins are able to somehow demonstrate that a God, the God does not exist. And, clearly, some leaps of faith are considerably blinder than others. And as long as there is no actual attempt made to impose one's beliefs on others, I would suggest that if others can justify something to themselves how harmful can it be?

Then this part...

Once again, however, this is a simplistic generalisation – easy to digest so long as critical reflection is not allowed to impede the smug satisfaction that comes from thinking that one has understood what one has not studied or personally known.

I get this from others now and again. They'll argue that I can't really critique any particular religious denomination until I go out and actually become a part of their community...to grasp their religious instructions and strictures from the inside. As though one by one I should go down the list...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...and critique each and every one of them.

Right.

Instead, to the extent someone does believe in God and is does not embody the "psychology of objectivism" here, my own main interest revolves around discussions of these factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

This week's Fiesta bowl has now definitively proven that prayers to a Christian god carries no weight.

Happy New Year.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:06 pm This week's Fiesta bowl has now definitively proven that prayers to a Christian god carries no weight.

Happy New Year.

My Michigan prayers were fully answered, and in a miraculous manner. I'd say we can all take encouragement from that.

Happy New Year, indeed.

Go Blue.

"I'd say we can all take encouragement from that."

Including those who prayed for the losing team to win?

That's one thing that has to suck about being God. What do u do if fans from both teams pray to u to let their team win?

One way to resolve this is to tally up the sins of each team and each teams fans. Then u let the team win that has the lowest number of combined sins (of players and fans).

Wait that won't work becuz some sins are worse than others. Say u have two red team players that stole a candy bar... but u have one blue team player that commited adultery.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:58 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:06 pm This week's Fiesta bowl has now definitively proven that prayers to a Christian god carries no weight.

Happy New Year.

My Michigan prayers were fully answered, and in a miraculous manner. I'd say we can all take encouragement from that.

Happy New Year, indeed.

Go Blue.

Uummm... not so much. Are you seriously saying that Alabama has a lower Christianity rate than (northern, gasp!) Michigan?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:58 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:06 pm This week's Fiesta bowl has now definitively proven that prayers to a Christian god carries no weight.

Happy New Year.

My Michigan prayers were fully answered, and in a miraculous manner. I'd say we can all take encouragement from that.

Happy New Year, indeed.

Go Blue.

Next up: Christianity and the Super Bowl!

Get your prayers in now.

Although, admittedly, if Jesus Christ does return for a second visit, how surprised would I be if it was during the half-time show? Either that or to campaign for Donald Trump?

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:07 pm "I'd say we can all take encouragement from that."

Including those who prayed for the losing team to win?

That's one thing that has to suck about being God. What do u do if fans from both teams pray to u to let their team win?

One way to resolve this is to tally up the sins of each team and each teams fans. Then u let the team win that has the lowest number of combined sins (of players and fans).

That's why the Fiesta bowl serves as proof and the Rose bowl doesn't. No school has a higher Christian rate than Liberty and the state of Oregon has the highest atheism rate.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:58 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:06 pm This week's Fiesta bowl has now definitively proven that prayers to a Christian god carries no weight.

Happy New Year.

My Michigan prayers were fully answered, and in a miraculous manner. I'd say we can all take encouragement from that.

Happy New Year, indeed.

Go Blue.

Uummm... not so much. Are you seriously saying that Alabama has a lower Christianity rate than (northern, gasp!) Michigan?

It depends on how many people were praying.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:00 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:58 pm
My Michigan prayers were fully answered, and in a miraculous manner. I'd say we can all take encouragement from that.

Happy New Year, indeed.

Go Blue.

Uummm... not so much. Are you seriously saying that Alabama has a lower Christianity rate than (northern, gasp!) Michigan?

It depends on how many people were praying.

Essentially every bama fan.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:48 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:00 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:14 pm

Uummm... not so much. Are you seriously saying that Alabama has a lower Christianity rate than (northern, gasp!) Michigan?

It depends on how many people were praying.

Essentially every bama fan.

Too late, I guess. The Big House in Michigan holds about 115,000, and Alabama's stadium, only about 101,000.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:51 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:48 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:00 pm
It depends on how many people were praying.

Essentially every bama fan.

Too late, I guess. The Big House in Michigan holds about 115,000, and Alabama's stadium, only about 101,000.

A rounding error's worth, which is why a 7 point victory one way or the other doesn't equal a referendum on prayer.

OTOH the Fiesta was a blow out for the leading atheist state over the MOST CHRISTIAN Division 1 school in the nation.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:19 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:51 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:48 am

Essentially every bama fan.

Too late, I guess. The Big House in Michigan holds about 115,000, and Alabama's stadium, only about 101,000.

A rounding error's worth, which is why a 7 point victory one way or the other doesn't equal a referendum on prayer.

OTOH the Fiesta was a blow out for the leading atheist state over the MOST CHRISTIAN Division 1 school in the nation.

Maybe the Supreme Being's concern about men chasing pigskins is not as great as yours or mine.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:33 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:19 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:51 am
Too late, I guess. The Big House in Michigan holds about 115,000, and Alabama's stadium, only about 101,000.

A rounding error's worth, which is why a 7 point victory one way or the other doesn't equal a referendum on prayer.

OTOH the Fiesta was a blow out for the leading atheist state over the MOST CHRISTIAN Division 1 school in the nation.

Maybe the Supreme Being's concern about men chasing pigskins is not as great as yours or mine.

Oh I agree completely. But try selling that to Liberty University students and alumni.