Christianity

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Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:07 pm
I believe the chicken is not capable of suffering, does not exhibit suffering, and is only a mindless meat machine.
Another stupid, ignorant belief by one of the biggest bullshitters on the site. What's stupid about these fuckers is they will never allow themselves to accept a single fact which counters their brain-dead fucking ignorance; even when asking for an explanation you never get one except a repeat proclamation of the same.

https://www.peta.org/action/10-surprisi ... -chickens/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... -pain.html

...there's a lot more where that came from.
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henry quirk
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Re: Christianity

Post by henry quirk »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_ ... of_Animals
Euthanasia and PETA's shelter
PETA is a strong proponent of euthanasia. They oppose the no-kill movement, and rather than adoption programs, PETA prefers to aim for zero births through spaying and neutering.[95] They recommend not breeding pit bulls, and support euthanasia in certain situations for animals in shelters, such as those being housed for long periods in cramped cages.[96]

PETA calls their shelter in Norfolk, Virginia a "shelter of last resort", claiming they only receive old, sick, injured, badly behaved, and otherwise unadoptable animals. Operating as open admission, they take in animals no one else will, and consider death a merciful end. The consistently high percentage of animals euthanized at PETA's shelter has been controversial.[97][98] In 2014, PETA euthanized over 80% of the shelter's animals and justified its euthanasia policies as "mercy killings".[99][100]

In 2008, industry lobby group Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) petitioned the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, requesting they reclassify PETA as a "slaughterhouse." CCF said in a news release that "[a]n official report filed by PETA itself shows that the animal rights group put to death nearly every dog, cat, and other pet it took in for adoption in 2006," with a kill rate of 97.4 percent.[101] In 2012, VDACS said that it had in the past considered changing PETA's status from "shelter" to "euthanasia clinic," citing PETA's willingness to take in "anything that comes through the door, and other shelters won't do that."[102] *PETA acknowledged that it euthanized 95% of the animals at its shelter in 2011.[102]

PETA's euthanasia practices have drawn intense scrutiny from lawmakers and criticism from animal rights activists for years. Fueled by public outrage from a 2014 incident where PETA workers took a pet Chihuahua from its porch and euthanized it the same day, the Virginia General Assembly passed Senate Bill 1381 in 2015 aimed at curtailing the operation of PETA's shelter. The bill defines a private animal shelter as "a facility operated for the purpose of finding permanent adoptive homes for animals."[97][103] Though risking their legal access to euthanasia drugs, PETA has continued their practices.[97][98] In the Chihuahua case, PETA paid a fine and settled a civil claim with the family three years later.[104]
*oh, the tender mercies...the recognition of feelings and suffering...'it's crying! let's kill it!'


https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2011/7525.html
Jo Edgar, PhD student in the School of Veterinary Sciences, said: “The extent to which animals are affected by the distress of others is of high relevance to the welfare of farm and laboratory animals.

“Our research has addressed the fundamental question of whether birds have the capacity to show empathic responses.

“We found that adult female birds possess at least one of the essential underpinning attributes of ‘empathy’; the ability to be affected by, and share, the emotional state of another.”
During one of the controlled procedures, when the chicks were exposed to a puff of air, the hens’ heart rate increased and eye temperature decreased. The hens also changed their behaviour, and reacted with increased alertness, decreased preening and increased vocalisations directed to their chicks.
Presumably both chicks and hens filled out questionnaires -- 'how did the unexpected puff make you feel?', 'were you frightened for your chicks?' -- to support the, I'm sure, wholly unbiased observations of Edgar and crew.
Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:10 am https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_ ... of_Animals
Euthanasia and PETA's shelter
PETA is a strong proponent of euthanasia. They oppose the no-kill movement, and rather than adoption programs, PETA prefers to aim for zero births through spaying and neutering.[95] They recommend not breeding pit bulls, and support euthanasia in certain situations for animals in shelters, such as those being housed for long periods in cramped cages.[96]

PETA calls their shelter in Norfolk, Virginia a "shelter of last resort", claiming they only receive old, sick, injured, badly behaved, and otherwise unadoptable animals. Operating as open admission, they take in animals no one else will, and consider death a merciful end. The consistently high percentage of animals euthanized at PETA's shelter has been controversial.[97][98] In 2014, PETA euthanized over 80% of the shelter's animals and justified its euthanasia policies as "mercy killings".[99][100]

In 2008, industry lobby group Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) petitioned the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, requesting they reclassify PETA as a "slaughterhouse." CCF said in a news release that "[a]n official report filed by PETA itself shows that the animal rights group put to death nearly every dog, cat, and other pet it took in for adoption in 2006," with a kill rate of 97.4 percent.[101] In 2012, VDACS said that it had in the past considered changing PETA's status from "shelter" to "euthanasia clinic," citing PETA's willingness to take in "anything that comes through the door, and other shelters won't do that."[102] *PETA acknowledged that it euthanized 95% of the animals at its shelter in 2011.[102]

PETA's euthanasia practices have drawn intense scrutiny from lawmakers and criticism from animal rights activists for years. Fueled by public outrage from a 2014 incident where PETA workers took a pet Chihuahua from its porch and euthanized it the same day, the Virginia General Assembly passed Senate Bill 1381 in 2015 aimed at curtailing the operation of PETA's shelter. The bill defines a private animal shelter as "a facility operated for the purpose of finding permanent adoptive homes for animals."[97][103] Though risking their legal access to euthanasia drugs, PETA has continued their practices.[97][98] In the Chihuahua case, PETA paid a fine and settled a civil claim with the family three years later.[104]
*oh, the tender mercies...the recognition of feelings and suffering...'it's crying! let's kill it!'


https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2011/7525.html
Jo Edgar, PhD student in the School of Veterinary Sciences, said: “The extent to which animals are affected by the distress of others is of high relevance to the welfare of farm and laboratory animals.

“Our research has addressed the fundamental question of whether birds have the capacity to show empathic responses.

“We found that adult female birds possess at least one of the essential underpinning attributes of ‘empathy’; the ability to be affected by, and share, the emotional state of another.”
During one of the controlled procedures, when the chicks were exposed to a puff of air, the hens’ heart rate increased and eye temperature decreased. The hens also changed their behaviour, and reacted with increased alertness, decreased preening and increased vocalisations directed to their chicks.
Presumably both chicks and hens filled out questionnaires -- 'how did the unexpected puff make you feel?', 'were you frightened for your chicks?' -- to support the, I'm sure, wholly unbiased observations of Edgar and crew.
What does all this crap have to do with THE FACT that chickens are not mere meat machines but actually complex creatures more so than we ever gave them credit for?
henry quirk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:10 amPresumably both chicks and hens filled out questionnaires -- 'how did the unexpected puff make you feel?', 'were you frightened for your chicks?' -- to support the, I'm sure, wholly unbiased observations of Edgar and crew.
A scientific study of animal behavior far outranks your stupid opinions on the subject which date back to the 16th and 17th century. But since Free Will made us in the image of god, you couldn't possibly be wrong.

BTW, euthanasia applies to humans as well. It will be requested and performed much more often in the future and not only due to the infirmities of old age; there will always be those who claim it as unjustified and a crime against humanity.
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Lacewing
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Re: Christianity

Post by Lacewing »

Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:30 am
henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:07 pm I believe the chicken is not capable of suffering, does not exhibit suffering, and is only a mindless meat machine.
Another stupid, ignorant belief by one of the biggest bullshitters on the site. What's stupid about these fuckers is they will never allow themselves to accept a single fact which counters their brain-dead fucking ignorance; even when asking for an explanation you never get one except a repeat proclamation of the same.
People who don't understand that animals suffer (and have feelings) are not paying attention.

When I lived in the woods with goats and chickens and other animals, I had several experiences where animals came to me because they had been hurt from an attack by a predator or another animal. One of these was a chicken who ran very fast to me because a rooster had ripped off part of her scalp. She had never run like that to me before. Of course there are accounts of wild animals doing this with strangers too. If animals weren't suffering... they wouldn't be seeking help from a human.
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henry quirk
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Re: Christianity

Post by henry quirk »

Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:36 am
What does all this crap have to do with THE FACT that chickens are not mere meat machines but actually complex creatures more so than we ever gave them credit for?
PETA people are hypocrites. Edgar is biased. Chickens are Roombas with feathers.
A scientific study of animal behavior far outranks your stupid opinions on the subject which date back to the 16th and 17th century.
Biased folks seeing what they're predisposed to see ain't science.
But since Free Will made us in the image of god, you couldn't possibly be wrong.
You're silly...and kinda illiterate.
BTW, euthanasia applies to humans as well. It will be requested and performed much more often in the future and not only due to the infirmities of old age; there will always be those who claim it as unjustified and a crime against humanity.
Oh, did all those animals PETA sheltered ask for the killing needle?

As for actual persons offin' themselves, on their own or thru proxies: they can do any ridiculous thing they want to themselves. Each is his or her own to do with as each sees fit.
Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:38 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:30 am
henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:07 pm I believe the chicken is not capable of suffering, does not exhibit suffering, and is only a mindless meat machine.
Another stupid, ignorant belief by one of the biggest bullshitters on the site. What's stupid about these fuckers is they will never allow themselves to accept a single fact which counters their brain-dead fucking ignorance; even when asking for an explanation you never get one except a repeat proclamation of the same.
People who don't understand that animals suffer (and have feelings) are not paying attention.

When I lived in the woods with goats and chickens and other animals, I had several experiences where animals came to me because they had been hurt from an attack by a predator or another animal. One of these was a chicken who ran very fast to me because a rooster had ripped off part of her scalp. She had never run like that to me before. Of course there are accounts of wild animals doing this with strangers too. If animals weren't suffering... they wouldn't be seeking help from a human.
It's worse than that! They're disgusting ignorant assholes who never answer questions directly especially when what's involved are facts and research. It's a fact that there's been a huge amount of research into both human and animal mentalities, the areas in which they overlap and some amazing data regarding it. All this is of no consequence to the zombie-brained.

People like that I loathe to kingdom come, miserable hypocrites and fucking liars. :evil:
Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:17 am
You're silly...and kinda illiterate.
I can well understand why you think your Ozark English is superior to mine! You probably never needed a dictionary for anything! :lol:

However, if you're going to use it just once, look up the meaning of the word IMAGE!
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Lacewing
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Re: Christianity

Post by Lacewing »

Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:26 am
Lacewing wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:38 am People who don't understand that animals suffer (and have feelings) are not paying attention.
It's worse than that!
I agree with you.

I also think that the people you refer to have a certain pride in their defiant ignorance, and they get a kick out of thinking they at least have any power to irritate the hell out of other people. It's a very low bar of accomplishment: being a fly in the ointment.
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Sculptor
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Re: Christianity

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:40 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:26 am
Lacewing wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:38 am People who don't understand that animals suffer (and have feelings) are not paying attention.
It's worse than that!
I agree with you.

I also think that the people you refer to have a certain pride in their defiant ignorance, and they get a kick out of thinking they at least have any power to irritate the hell out of other people. It's a very low bar of accomplishment: being a fly in the ointment.
So are the people who thrive on animals cruelty; or the people who love animals following the dictates of the aliens that created us?
Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:17 am
Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:36 am
What does all this crap have to do with THE FACT that chickens are not mere meat machines but actually complex creatures more so than we ever gave them credit for?
PETA people are hypocrites. Edgar is biased. Chickens are Roombas with feathers.
A scientific study of animal behavior far outranks your stupid opinions on the subject which date back to the 16th and 17th century.
Biased folks seeing what they're predisposed to see ain't science.
LOL and 'you' 'seeing' that chickens do NOT have ANY 'feelings' AT ALL is NOT 'biased' in ANY way, shape, NOR form, right "henry quirk"?

'your' love of eating chicken meat is NOT affecting 'you' in ANY way and NOT STOPPING 'you' from 'seeing' what you 'see' here right "henry quirk"?
henry quirk wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:17 am
But since Free Will made us in the image of god, you couldn't possibly be wrong.
You're silly...and kinda illiterate.
BTW, euthanasia applies to humans as well. It will be requested and performed much more often in the future and not only due to the infirmities of old age; there will always be those who claim it as unjustified and a crime against humanity.
Oh, did all those animals PETA sheltered ask for the killing needle?

As for actual persons offin' themselves, on their own or thru proxies: they can do any ridiculous thing they want to themselves. Each is his or her own to do with as each sees fit.
New born human babies are NOTHING MORE than 'roombas' with skin EITHER, to 'you' right?
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

I dreamed I was a Roomba in what I took to be God’s extremely bourgeois mansion. As I algorithmed my way around the place, behind every door was an enormous hen with half its scalp pecked off!

It was horrible, people, horrible!
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attofishpi
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Re: Christianity

Post by attofishpi »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:00 am I dreamed I was a Roomba in what I took to be God’s extremely bourgeois mansion. As I algorithmed my way around behind every door was an enormous hen with half its scalp pecked off. It was horrible, people, horrible!
:D

I must again apologise Jacobi for my antics in another thread (and seeds if you r reading..maybe even Lacewing) I've come to real eyes that I turn into a gradual arsehole with the application of beer. Watching the womens world cup - and my God those girls would run circles around me on the pitch - the skill level is up there with the men, just a different tempo - or something - but ya consumed booze, and then this morning checked the forum and saw what a dickhead I had turned into....so sorry everyone just call me attotwat!
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Dubious wrote: Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:29 am I can well understand why you think your Ozark English is superior to mine!
You ain't bin payin' attenchun!
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:07 pm
Harry Baird wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:33 am
Harry, you believe the chicken is capable of suffering, exhibits suffering, and has a mind of sorts.

I believe the chicken is not capable of suffering, does not exhibit suffering, and is only a mindless meat machine.

You, and others, believe you see the chicken suffering (it acts in ways you say indicate it suffers).

I believe you, and others, misinterpret the chicken's actions. I don't believe you, and others, are assessing accurately.

You would have me agree God built the chicken to mimic suffering.

I will not becuz the chicken is not mimicking suffering; you, and others, are anthropomorphizing it. It's reactions are canned. it does not, cannot, respond. There's no one behind its fowl lil eyes.

You, and others, see what you want to; you are not seein' what's actually there. You overlay personhood on that which is not a person.
Life is condemned to destroy life in order to live. The world is a pit of destruction and when there is nothing outside to destroy, we destroy ourselves on the inside. If there is a God, then hopefully God did not create any being in this world in its image. But then who or what is "God"? And why did "God" create living beings that seem to endlessly seek to destroy each other?

And with that said, I have come to realize that the will to destroy also extends upward into a will to destroy God, if only out of vengeance. I am horrible. Wanton destruction is even more evil than measured or constrained destruction. But perhaps it is better to try to destroy what I cannot destroy than to destroy something that I can? I hope God will understand me.

The Earth has become a hell.
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henry quirk
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Re: Christianity

Post by henry quirk »

Let's see here: I got the gamma, the slut, the three psycho-cripples, and the well-spoken man of leisure arrayed against my chicken-abusin', neanderthal self.

If I can get the fractured, the vacuous, the dick-waggler, and NZ's finest to pipe in I'll have me a full set.
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