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Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:27 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:14 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 3:23 pm
In Socialism, you get to pick your role: you get to be a wolf, or one of the sheep the wolves eat. Those are your choices.
The same seems to apply in non-socialist countries as well.
Not at all, actually. You live in the most free and privileged situation that's existed in history. By contrast, every Socialist regime has been a hellhole of human rights abuses, totalitarianism and robbery.
Be thankful. You've got it good.
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:27 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:14 pm
The same seems to apply in non-socialist countries as well.
Not at all, actually. You live in the most free and privileged situation that's existed in history. By contrast, every Socialist regime has been a hellhole of human rights abuses, totalitarianism and robbery.
Be thankful. You've got it good.
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:36 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:27 pm
Not at all, actually. You live in the most free and privileged situation that's existed in history. By contrast, every Socialist regime has been a hellhole of human rights abuses, totalitarianism and robbery.
Be thankful. You've got it good.
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
So now it's the, "be happy with what you have and stop complaining". Like so many Christians, I should feel "thankful" that I'm not homeless and "pray" for the homeless. I'm sure that does a lot.
Go be thankful yourself that you don't live in the US, Honduras or Nigeria as a homeless person.
I had forgotten for a moment why I dislike some Christians. Thanks for reminding me.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:41 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:27 pm
Not at all, actually. You live in the most free and privileged situation that's existed in history. By contrast, every Socialist regime has been a hellhole of human rights abuses, totalitarianism and robbery.
Be thankful. You've got it good.
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
Damn, that was a weird thing you wrote there.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:56 pm
by Immanuel Can
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:41 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
Damn, that was a weird thing you wrote there.
You clearly haven't visited any of those nations. In Canada, winter temperatures go down to -40. Compare that to winter in California. Or compare dumpster-diving in Honduras or Nigeria with what you can get behind McDonalds or Burger King in America.
You wouldn't be in doubt where you'd want to live, if you had to be on the streets.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:00 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:29 pm
If I were among the many homeless, I would probably disagree with that assessment. Do their opinions count for anything?
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
So now it's the, "be happy with what you have and stop complaining".
No. It's simpler than that.
When a man forgets to be grateful for what he DOES have, and only thinks about what he DOESN'T have, he's writing his own recipe for permanent misery.
His own recipe.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:28 pm
by phyllo
In Canada, winter temperatures go down to -40.
Depends on where in Canada. Most of the heavily populated areas don't have those low temperatures.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:41 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:28 pm
In Canada, winter temperatures go down to -40.
Depends on where in Canada. Most of the heavily populated areas don't have those low temperatures.
Last winter, in Canada's
southernmost town, the low temperature of the winter was -18.3C, with a wind chill of -30C. But almost all of Canada is north of that town, as it is basically on the Detroit border. In a major city like Toronto, the low was -33 C. In another major city, like Ottawa or Montreal, -40 isn't even unexpected, and it gets even colder.
But compare that to being on the street in California or Florida last winter. In SF, the lowest ranges around 5 to 8C, and in LA it was 5C, though both cities are, of course, routinely much warmer than that, ranging between 16-20C for daytime highs.
So if you had to spend a night on the streets, would you pick LA or Montreal?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:06 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:36 pm
So now it's the, "be happy with what you have and stop complaining". Like so many Christians, I should feel "thankful" that I'm not homeless and "pray" for the homeless. I'm sure that does a lot.
You would be so surprised...if your eyes were ever open.
But here's what you really need, Gary. And it's not from a Christian, but from a Jew. Still, it's excellent perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qanDVZHliw
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:15 pm
by phyllo
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:41 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:28 pm
In Canada, winter temperatures go down to -40.
Depends on where in Canada. Most of the heavily populated areas don't have those low temperatures.
Last winter, in Canada's
southernmost town, the low temperature of the winter was -18.3C, with a wind chill of -30C. But almost all of Canada is north of that town, as it is basically on the Detroit border. In a major city like Toronto, the low was -33 C. In another major city, like Ottawa or Montreal, -40 isn't even unexpected, and it gets even colder.
But compare that to being on the street in California or Florida last winter. In SF, the lowest ranges around 5 to 8C, and in LA it was 5C, though both cities are, of course, routinely much warmer than that, ranging between 16-20C for daytime highs.
So if you had to spend a night on the streets, would you pick LA or Montreal?
You selectively exclude the northern states and Alaska.
In January 2026, it dropped to -32F in Michigan. Coldest temperature in Michigan was -51F(-46C) in 1934.
Coldest recorded temperature in Montreal was -37.8C in 1957. Ottawa was -38.9C in 1933.
And now for the traffic report. How does it look out there Becky?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:38 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:41 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:28 pm
Depends on where in Canada. Most of the heavily populated areas don't have those low temperatures.
Last winter, in Canada's
southernmost town, the low temperature of the winter was -18.3C, with a wind chill of -30C. But almost all of Canada is north of that town, as it is basically on the Detroit border. In a major city like Toronto, the low was -33 C. In another major city, like Ottawa or Montreal, -40 isn't even unexpected, and it gets even colder.
But compare that to being on the street in California or Florida last winter. In SF, the lowest ranges around 5 to 8C, and in LA it was 5C, though both cities are, of course, routinely much warmer than that, ranging between 16-20C for daytime highs.
So if you had to spend a night on the streets, would you pick LA or Montreal?
You selectively exclude the northern states and Alaska.
You only asked for Canada. Those temperatures are the BEST it gets there. It NEVER gets to the temperatures of an LA or SF or Florida. And it freezes over totally EVERY year.
So does Minnesota or Michigan, of course, and Alaska. But a homeless person in the US has an option. One in Canada does not.
Again, where do you want to spend one winter night: LA or Ottawa?
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 6:43 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:56 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:41 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 4:32 pm
Well, if you think it's tough being homeless in America, try it in Canada, or in Honduras, or in Nigeria. Then you'll stop complaining. Even for homeless people, their prospects in the US are better than elsewhere.
Damn, that was a weird thing you wrote there.
You clearly haven't visited any of those nations. In Canada, winter temperatures go down to -40. Compare that to winter in California. Or compare dumpster-diving in Honduras or Nigeria with what you can get behind McDonalds or Burger King in America.
You wouldn't be in doubt where you'd want to live, if you had to be on the streets.
I see you chose to just double down on the weird there. Strong choice, makes a statement.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:02 pm
by phyllo
You only asked for Canada.
I didn't ask for anything. I corrected your misinformation.
Those temperatures are the BEST it gets there.
No. Those were the coldest recorded temperatures. It's not usually that cold.
Plus the obvious ... Gary wasn't talking about the weather when he brought up homelessness. It was about unfairness, inequality, lack of social support systems.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:08 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:02 pm
You only asked for Canada.
I didn't ask for anything. I corrected your misinformation.
You got it wrong.
Re: A Failure of Democracy
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:14 pm
by phyllo
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:08 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 7:02 pm
You only asked for Canada.
I didn't ask for anything. I corrected your misinformation.
You got it wrong.
Which part?