Global Capitalism

[Immanuel Can]

If there's a God, then that is possibly true.

I think you know, too, Gary. There's only one sort of place that honours the demands of that kind of man. I think you can see how automatic that is.

Can you make it more clear what you think is the "only one" sort of place that man belongs or "wants" to go? It's not clear to me. Heck, maybe there are several places that would "honor" such a man.

Name them.

[Gary Childress]

I think you know, too, Gary. There's only one sort of place that honours the demands of that kind of man. I think you can see how automatic that is.

Can you make it more clear what you think is the "only one" sort of place that man belongs or "wants" to go? It's not clear to me. Heck, maybe there are several places that would "honor" such a man.

Name them.

I don't know of any other places talked about by humans other than Heaven or Hell or maybe Purgatory. Are there no other places than those? Do you know of others? And if you don't, then which one of those two does a person whose only crimes are lack of devotion to God and traffic infractions belong?

[Immanuel Can]

Can you make it more clear what you think is the "only one" sort of place that man belongs or "wants" to go? It's not clear to me. Heck, maybe there are several places that would "honor" such a man.

Name them.

I don't know of any other places talked about by humans other than Heaven or Hell

Bingo

or maybe Purgatory.

Well, that has two problems: one, it's purely fictional. And secondly, that if there were such a place, it would still undermine the choice of the chooser, just with more coercion than before. Eventually, he'd still have to deal with God, and he'd still have to accept God's gifts...which he has declared he does not wish to do.

Are there no other places than those?

No. Unless you can suggest anything, of course.

[Gary Childress]

Name them.

I don't know of any other places talked about by humans other than Heaven or Hell

Bingo

or maybe Purgatory.

Well, that has two problems: one, it's purely fictional. And secondly, that if there were such a place, it would still undermine the choice of the chooser, just with more coercion than before. Eventually, he'd still have to deal with God, and he'd still have to accept God's gifts...which he has declared he does not wish to do.

Are there no other places than those?

No. Unless you can suggest anything, of course.

What "gifts" from God do you think I don't want or accept?

[Immanuel Can]

I don't know of any other places talked about by humans other than Heaven or Hell

Bingo

or maybe Purgatory.

Well, that has two problems: one, it's purely fictional. And secondly, that if there were such a place, it would still undermine the choice of the chooser, just with more coercion than before. Eventually, he'd still have to deal with God, and he'd still have to accept God's gifts...which he has declared he does not wish to do.

Are there no other places than those?

No. Unless you can suggest anything, of course.

What "gifts" from God do you think I don't want or accept?

Were we taking about you? I was speaking impersonally, about what gets a theoretical man into a place with no God and no good gifts.

Are you the man who hates God and despises His gifts? I wasn't intending that, but if you're claiming it...

[Gary Childress]

Bingo


Well, that has two problems: one, it's purely fictional. And secondly, that if there were such a place, it would still undermine the choice of the chooser, just with more coercion than before. Eventually, he'd still have to deal with God, and he'd still have to accept God's gifts...which he has declared he does not wish to do.


No. Unless you can suggest anything, of course.

What "gifts" from God do you think I don't want or accept?

Were we taking about you? I was speaking impersonally, about what gets a theoretical man into a place with no God and no good gifts.

Are you the man who hates God and despises His gifts? I wasn't intending that, but if you're claiming it...

I'm the man who is guilty of not being devoted to God and has the traffic infractions. I thought we were talking about him, since that is the example I have repeatedly used. Wouldn't it be better to answer the specific question I've asked, than answer one that I didn't ask but not tell me that is the one you were answering?

[Immanuel Can]

What "gifts" from God do you think I don't want or accept?

Were we taking about you? I was speaking impersonally, about what gets a theoretical man into a place with no God and no good gifts.

Are you the man who hates God and despises His gifts? I wasn't intending that, but if you're claiming it...

I'm the man who is guilty of not being devoted to God and has the traffic infractions.

What "traffic infractions"? Are you confused again between human arbitrary rules and natural outcomes?

[Gary Childress]

Were we taking about you? I was speaking impersonally, about what gets a theoretical man into a place with no God and no good gifts.

Are you the man who hates God and despises His gifts? I wasn't intending that, but if you're claiming it...

I'm the man who is guilty of not being devoted to God and has the traffic infractions.

What "traffic infractions"? Are you confused again between human arbitrary rules and natural outcomes?

Going over the speed limit mostly. I also illegally drove under the influence a few times when I was in my late teens and 20s but thankfully nothing bad happened from it at the time and I don't drink anymore since I was put on antipsychotics at age 25.

[Gary Childress]

Were we taking about you? I was speaking impersonally, about what gets a theoretical man into a place with no God and no good gifts.

Are you the man who hates God and despises His gifts? I wasn't intending that, but if you're claiming it...

I'm the man who is guilty of not being devoted to God and has the traffic infractions.

What "traffic infractions"? Are you confused again between human arbitrary rules and natural outcomes?

So do you think I should go to Heaven or Hell (since those seem to be the only choices)?

[Immanuel Can]

I'm the man who is guilty of not being devoted to God and has the traffic infractions.

What "traffic infractions"? Are you confused again between human arbitrary rules and natural outcomes?

So do you think I should go to Heaven or Hell (since those seem to be the only choices)?

I'm saying that logically, if you choose not-God and not-His-gifts, that's exactly what you have to get, if God honours your choice. Logically, there's nothing else that can happen.

Want to call that something? Call it Hell. Just don't choose it.

[Gary Childress]

What "traffic infractions"? Are you confused again between human arbitrary rules and natural outcomes?

So do you think I should go to Heaven or Hell (since those seem to be the only choices)?

I'm saying that logically, if you choose not-God and not-His-gifts, that's exactly what you have to get, if God honours your choice. Logically, there's nothing else that can happen.

Want to call that something? Call it Hell. Just don't choose it.

If I choose God, does it have to be the one featured in the Bible, or can I think or hope of God as being something better than that?

[Immanuel Can]

So do you think I should go to Heaven or Hell (since those seem to be the only choices)?

I'm saying that logically, if you choose not-God and not-His-gifts, that's exactly what you have to get, if God honours your choice. Logically, there's nothing else that can happen.

Want to call that something? Call it Hell. Just don't choose it.

If I choose God, does it have to be the one featured in the Bible, or can I think or hope of God as being something better than that?

If you suppose you can "think" something in or out of existence, that's certainly not God. We might all wish for many things...but reality is reality.

As for "better," which scale of values do you draw on in making that value judgment? I thought a secularist had no objective values. So nothing can be "better" or worse, at least, not in any moral sense. Secularism acknowledges no such reality as a hierarchy of values.

[Gary Childress]

I'm saying that logically, if you choose not-God and not-His-gifts, that's exactly what you have to get, if God honours your choice. Logically, there's nothing else that can happen.

Want to call that something? Call it Hell. Just don't choose it.

If I choose God, does it have to be the one featured in the Bible, or can I think or hope of God as being something better than that?

If you suppose you can "think" something in or out of existence, that's certainly not God. We might all wish for many things...but reality is reality.

As for "better," which scale of values do you draw on in making that value judgment? I thought a secularist had no objective values. So nothing can be "better" or worse, at least, not in any moral sense. Secularism acknowledges no such reality as a hierarchy of values.

Well, if God is a jealous and angry God as depicted in the Bible, then there's nothing I can do about it but live with it I guess. I'd prefer a being that I would consider more "divine" or that I could look up to and admire, but if I'm stuck with the Bible, and if it's either "Heaven" or "Hell" then I suppose Hell would be unbearable and who can want that? I'd choose "Heaven" and hope that God is bearable. If not, then both choices are my loss. Hopefully, the divine is something better than that.

[Immanuel Can]

If I choose God, does it have to be the one featured in the Bible, or can I think or hope of God as being something better than that?

If you suppose you can "think" something in or out of existence, that's certainly not God. We might all wish for many things...but reality is reality.

As for "better," which scale of values do you draw on in making that value judgment? I thought a secularist had no objective values. So nothing can be "better" or worse, at least, not in any moral sense. Secularism acknowledges no such reality as a hierarchy of values.

Well, if God is a jealous and angry God as depicted in the Bible, then there's nothing I can do about it but live with it I guess. I'd prefer a being that I would consider more "divine" or that I could look up to and admire, but if I'm stuck with the Bible, and if it's either "Heaven" or "Hell" then I suppose Hell would be unbearable and who can want that? I'd choose "Heaven" and hope that God is bearable. If not, then both choices are my loss. Hopefully, the divine is something better than that.

Yes...that's just the vote of confidence that a real relationship requires "I guess you might not be too awful."

Good luck with that attitude.

[Gary Childress]

Good luck with that attitude.

Thanks. Apparently, I'll need all the luck I can get in this world.