Philosophy Now Forum

And then is there a way to enlighten me?

NATO has now publicly admitted that their insistence on expanding to Ukraine has precipitated the Ukraine war. Farage warned them a decade ago. Putin's emissaries issued them a formal notice of the fact that expansion would result in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. They knew that. They did it anyway.

Bear in mind two things: first, that there is no reason for NATO even to exist. Its utility died with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet empire. Secondly, remember that NATO effectively IS the U.S., and in this case, the Democrats particularly. No expansion of NATO would even have been possible if the Americans had not supported that strategy. And Trump didn't; he publicly advocated the disbanding of NATO. It was the Biden admin.

Bear in mind as well, that NATO is an unelected body. They have no accountability with the American people, or with anybody else but their own overlords.

Now, American taxpayers are being drained to finance a war that did not need to happen, for the purposes of an institution that should have been disbanded after the Cold War. And Ukrainians and Russians are being massacred for the purposes of this expansion.

You can't make this stuff up.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pm NATO has now publicly admitted that their insistence on expanding to Ukraine has precipitated the Ukraine war. Farage warned them a decade ago. Putin's emissaries issued them a formal notice of the fact that expansion would result in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. They knew that. They did it anyway.

Bear in mind two things: first, that there is no reason for NATO even to exist. Its utility died with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet empire. Secondly, remember that NATO effectively IS the U.S., and in this case, the Democrats particularly. No expansion of NATO would even have been possible if the Americans had not supported that strategy. And Trump didn't; he publicly advocated the disbanding of NATO. It was the Biden admin.

Bear in mind as well, that NATO is an unelected body. They have no accountability with the American people, or with anybody else but their own overlords.

Now, American taxpayers are being drained to finance a war that did not need to happen, for the purposes of an institution that should have been disbanded after the Cold War. And Ukrainians and Russians are being massacred for the purposes of this expansion.

You can't make this stuff up.

Let's suffice to say, I'm not an expert on the matter so I couldn't tell you who should "win" the Ukraine war and I can't say who should end it. Good luck with your determination. I do agree it's one of the top most immediate priorities I can think of but I think that is in Putin's hands now. Europe has to calm itself and not retaliate against Putin as a person unless they want to convict George Bush Jr. of invading Iraq.

To be honest, I think Putin should come out and make that a negotiation condition for ending the Ukraine war. I think it's the right thing for Putin to do, though I'm just not sure if Putin is interested in doing the right thing.

@AJ: What do you think, AJ? How can the war in Ukraine be ended in a fair and just way? I suggest what I just wrote above. It would be as fair and just as I can think of if Putin is willing to make it a condition that George Bush Jr. faces justice for his crimes of invasion also. The world will then see how impartial the West is in its administration of justice.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pmm

I can't guarantee an outcome in any way. But worst case scenario, Putin would at least die a martyr because he showed mankind that evil is not the right thing to do AND WHY it's not the right thing to do.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:35 pm No that is not the case. Please cite.

Both of the Bushes are recognized as war-criminals. Clinton and his entire outfit have all sorts of accusations that follow them. Obama has been accused, but not indicted, for use of the intelligence services to spy on a candidate. You say below that Nixon committed crimes but the crimes Obama has been accused of are far more serious than the Watergate break-in if looked at objectively.

But your point is really that Trump has been indicted for crimes of a different sort.

I have no doubt that there may be corrupt practies but Trump is a fucking gangster. Your whataboutery is all very well, but There has to be limits. Trump has been very clever at pretending they are all crooks, but despite saying he will drain the swapm, and despite filling up the courts with MAGA friendly judges he has not brought any one to justice.

As for Trump, he has gone further in his criminality than anyone since Nixon.

It may be that Trump is closer to the actual underworld, but so have numerous recent presidents if we are to be factual. Trump, because of his businesses in NY. But some presidents have (through proxies) dealt with mobsters.

It is an ugly world this world of power-politics.

In any case I do not place any great faith in Trump. In fact I don't place my faith anywhere. Because I think the system has reached a point of extreme corruption (and because we are in a war right now, but it is one under different terms and so is not recognized as war).

As for Trump, he has gone further in his criminality than anyone since Nixon.

So far he has only been accused. But I am not insensitive to the point you are making.

You omitted Obama and his spying. In fact that is also serious indeed. And the Russia hoax fabrications. Should these not also count?

WTF are you talking about?

My view is that a president is not the one wielding power. The president is a figure-head with limited power. The question is, then, who or what wields real determining power? That is *WTF* I am talking about.

You might want to hold off on the conspiracy theories for a moment and read Project 2025. Because as bad as it is, not one imagined just how bad the police state could be.

I have not found a great deal to read. There is this description however.

The Mandate is described here. I have not read it (a hundred or more pages -- have you?

You might want to hold off on the conspiracy theories for a moment and read Project 2025. Because as bad as it is, not one imagined just how bad the poilce state could be.

The rise of a Police State in a global context in the afrermath of 9/11 is no "conspiracy theory". It has been excessively documented. I admit that the idea of so-called 4th and 5th generation warfare requires more explanation. But it is not mere invention.

I'm sure Germans in 1936 when facing Nazism used to say, oh well Ghengis Khan was a great leader - and it only the Jews ... right?

The comparison is far too common, and it does not apply.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:05 pm @AJ: What do you think, AJ? How can the war in Ukraine be ended in a fair and just way? I suggest what I just wrote above. It would be as fair and just as I can think of if Putin is willing to make it a condition that George Bush Jr. faces justice for his crimes of invasion also. The world will then see how impartial the West is in its administration of justice.

Gary, this is the last interaction you and I will have (or I will have with you). I think you have severe problems and you should be in a therapeutic environment, not here. Your sickness makes it quite impossible for you to participate in productive ways. But you are here and you want to be here and that is your choice naturally.

But you will get no more responses from me. I might have sent this in a PM for the privacy but here you have it.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:05 pm @AJ: What do you think, AJ? How can the war in Ukraine be ended in a fair and just way? I suggest what I just wrote above. It would be as fair and just as I can think of if Putin is willing to make it a condition that George Bush Jr. faces justice for his crimes of invasion also. The world will then see how impartial the West is in its administration of justice.

Gary, this is the last interaction you and I will have (or I will have with you). I think you have severe problems and you should be in a therapeutic environment, not here. Your sickness makes it quite impossible for you to participate in productive ways. But you are here and you want to be here and that is your choice naturally.

But you will get no more responses from me. I might have sent this in a PM for the privacy but here you have it.

Have it your way. Face what you will face. Don't say I haven't been trying to warn you. However, if it's any consolation I'll be here for you until I face the same thing. If your only goal in life is to be the last one standing then, adios friend. Enjoy the loneliness and pointlessness that will exist at that point. I'll say that now just in case there's no tomorrow for me. Remember. I warned you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoNGRVeC7Y

I dedicate this video to you, AJ. I wish the best for you.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pm NATO has now publicly admitted that their insistence on expanding to Ukraine has precipitated the Ukraine war. Farage warned them a decade ago. Putin's emissaries issued them a formal notice of the fact that expansion would result in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. They knew that. They did it anyway.

Bear in mind two things: first, that there is no reason for NATO even to exist. Its utility died with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet empire. Secondly, remember that NATO effectively IS the U.S., and in this case, the Democrats particularly. No expansion of NATO would even have been possible if the Americans had not supported that strategy. And Trump didn't; he publicly advocated the disbanding of NATO. It was the Biden admin.

Bear in mind as well, that NATO is an unelected body. They have no accountability with the American people, or with anybody else but their own overlords.

Now, American taxpayers are being drained to finance a war that did not need to happen, for the purposes of an institution that should have been disbanded after the Cold War. And Ukrainians and Russians are being massacred for the purposes of this expansion.

You can't make this stuff up.

Let's suffice to say, I'm not an expert on the matter so I couldn't tell you who should "win" the Ukraine war and I can't say who should end it.

That's not the point. Who started it, is the point.

To be honest, I think Putin should come out and make that a negotiation condition for ending the Ukraine war.

Biden has already publicly declared he will keep the war going until there's "regime change." But that means, to Putin, death. So Biden's made negotiation impossible for him, and has indefinitely guaranteed the war will continue.

I think it's the right thing for Putin to do, though I'm just not sure if Putin is interested in doing the right thing.

If only Biden's handlers were! But clearly, they're not.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:05 pm Let's suffice to say, I'm not an expert on the matter so I couldn't tell you who should "win" the Ukraine war and I can't say who should end it.

That's not the point. Who started it, is the point.

Who started what? The Ukraine war? The Iraq war. The destruction of the WTC on 9/11? How far BACKWARD do we need to go in order to find who is PERFECTLY guilty? Why not go forward and just end wars as they come along. Is Putin going to gain anything from conquering Ukraine? What does Putin want? I had hoped he wanted justice. If he doesn't then he's going to go down in history as just another human who did what was evil.

Don't you want to find something better to do than fight wars? How about saving uncountable human lives from violent destruction? Does that have any merit?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:05 pm Let's suffice to say, I'm not an expert on the matter so I couldn't tell you who should "win" the Ukraine war and I can't say who should end it.

That's not the point. Who started it, is the point.

Who started what? The Ukraine war?

Of course. That's the war we were talking about.

Don't you want to find something better to do than fight wars?

I'm not fighting any. Nor am I starting any. But NATO is, and Biden is, and somebody's voting for guys like Biden.

They should stop. He should stop...but he won't, because he's not capable of anything anymore. So somebody will need to stop those that are keeping him going. That is, if you want the war to stop.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:24 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:18 pm Who started what? The Ukraine war?

Of course. That's the war we were talking about.

Putin.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pm NATO has now publicly admitted that their insistence on expanding to Ukraine has precipitated the Ukraine war.

I missed that news item. Who exactly said what?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:27 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pm NATO has now publicly admitted that their insistence on expanding to Ukraine has precipitated the Ukraine war.

I missed that news item. Who exactly said what?

It's what IC believes. He secretly believes in an eye for an eye and not in love thy enemy. Or at least he thinks anyone who doesn't believe in God OUGHT TO think that way. IC just uses Christianity as his present bucket. Everything he gets is a present from God, for no other reason than because he's a Christian and others aren't.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:27 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:24 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:18 pm Who started what? The Ukraine war?

Of course. That's the war we were talking about.

Putin.

Putin's a psycho. But Biden's handlers knew that. NATO has now admitted to provoking the psycho to invade, https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/na ... n-invasion, for example, and Biden's announced his plans to perpetuate that war indefinitely, to the point of regime change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cu2-rZbHhQ.

Now, imagine what it means when you tell a psycho, and one with nuclear weapons, that your plan is to provoke a regime-change war with him? That's what the Democrats have done.