Philosophy Now Forum

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:21 pmNow, “redshift on the scale of the solar system is comprehensively verified“ in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

We have measured the redshift due to the rotation of planets in our solar system. The thing with a rotating body is that one side is moving towards you, and another is moving away.

I KNOW. I was the one that POINTED THIS OUT PREVIOUSLY, to you, which you are now copying and saying.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm We can can measure the redshift of the side that is moving away and compare it to the blueshift of the side that is moving towards us. By doing so we can work out how fast the planet is rotating. This was done before the 1920's. Since then probes have visited every planet in the solar system and verified the century old calculations. Do you need me to be more exact?

NO. I HAVE NEVER even enquired about these DISTRACTING FEATURES.

However what I HAVE DONE is just asked you a CLARIFYING QUESTION. Now if you are UNABLE TO just ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I pose to you Honestly, OPENLY, andy DIRECTLY, then it would probably take MORE than your lifetime for me to be able to SHOW you one reason why to think the Universe is infinite and eternal.

LOOK, I am making this VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY for you. When you see the question mark symbol, which looks like this (?), then this means that I AM asking you a CLARIFYING QUESTION, and ALL you HAVE TO DO is just answer 'it' Honestly,OPENLY, and DIRECTLY. Do you UNDERSTAND this? Do, I NEED to EXPLAIN MORE to you in how asking and answering CLARIFYING QUESTIONS WORKS? Let me know if you NEED me to SIMPLIFY this process for you, or if I could make it ANY EASIER for you, okay?

As I INFORMED YOU EARLIER, ANY delaying you do, by detracting or deflecting, only SLOWS this whole process down.

If you REALLY want to FIND OUT some thing that makes you think the Universe is infinite and eternal, then just ANSWER the CLARIFY QUESTIONS I pose to you.

Now, if you do NOT agree, or do NOT accept, that redshifted objects are moving away from the instrument taking the 'data' and blueshifted objects are moving closer to the instrument taking the 'data', then WHY NOT?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:08 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:39 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:41 pm
Go on then

Go on them 'what', EXACTLY?

Do the showing

Are you OPEN to the Fact that the Universe could be infinite and eternal?

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:21 pmNow, “redshift on the scale of the solar system is comprehensively verified“ in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

We have measured the redshift due to the rotation of planets in our solar system. The thing with a rotating body is that one side is moving towards you, and another is moving away.

I KNOW. I was the one that POINTED THIS OUT PREVIOUSLY, to you, which you are now copying and saying.

You read it in my book; page 5 https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... -guns.html At least it shows you are capable of learning.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm We can can measure the redshift of the side that is moving away and compare it to the blueshift of the side that is moving towards us. By doing so we can work out how fast the planet is rotating. This was done before the 1920's. Since then probes have visited every planet in the solar system and verified the century old calculations. Do you need me to be more exact?

NO. I HAVE NEVER even enquired about these DISTRACTING FEATURES.

Erm...

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:21 pmNow, “redshift on the scale of the solar system is comprehensively verified“ in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 amNow, if you do NOT agree, or do NOT accept, that redshifted objects are moving away from the instrument taking the 'data' and blueshifted objects are moving closer to the instrument taking the 'data', then WHY NOT?

I do agree with that. Where we differ is that you think that the hundred or so local galaxies that exhibit blueshift prove that the hundreds of billions of galaxies that show redshift are not "moving away from the instrument taking the 'data'". Either that or the bit of the universe we can see is just part of the much larger total universe; which you, because you are not human, have information beyond the technological abilities of this crude ape species, and know for a fact that the really, really big universe is infinite and eternal. In which case, why are we arguing about galactic redshift?

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:07 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:08 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:39 pm

Go on them 'what', EXACTLY?

Do the showing

Are you OPEN to the Fact that the Universe could be infinite and eternal?

I will be after you show me.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm We have measured the redshift due to the rotation of planets in our solar system. The thing with a rotating body is that one side is moving towards you, and another is moving away.

I KNOW. I was the one that POINTED THIS OUT PREVIOUSLY, to you, which you are now copying and saying.

You read it in my book; page 5 https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... -guns.html At least it shows you are capable of learning.

LOL if this is what you want to BELIEVE IS TRUE, then you are MORE THAN WELCOME TO BELIEVE 'it'. BUT, it does NOT make 'it' true AT ALL.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:55 pm We can can measure the redshift of the side that is moving away and compare it to the blueshift of the side that is moving towards us. By doing so we can work out how fast the planet is rotating. This was done before the 1920's. Since then probes have visited every planet in the solar system and verified the century old calculations. Do you need me to be more exact?

NO. I HAVE NEVER even enquired about these DISTRACTING FEATURES.

Erm...

Age wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:21 pmNow, “redshift on the scale of the solar system is comprehensively verified“ in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 amNow, if you do NOT agree, or do NOT accept, that redshifted objects are moving away from the instrument taking the 'data' and blueshifted objects are moving closer to the instrument taking the 'data', then WHY NOT?

I do agree with that.

THANK YOU we FINALLY got here.

Now we can move along.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am Where we differ is that you think that the hundred or so local galaxies that exhibit blueshift prove that the hundreds of billions of galaxies that show redshift are not "moving away from the instrument taking the 'data'".

LOL

You could NOT be ANY FURTHER Wrong.

And here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of WHY human beings took so long to arrive at what IS IRREFUTABLY True. Your continued ASSUMPTIONS SLOW you down to the point of just about NEVER moving forward. I will suggest, ONCE AGAIN, to NEVER ASSUME absolutely ANY thing and to just GAIN CLARITY, FIRST.

I have NEVER SAID what you have ASSUMED here. As can be so EASILY and SIMPLY PROVED IRREFUTABLY True by just READING the ACTUAL WORDS that I have ALREADY USED here.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am Either that or the bit of the universe we can see is just part of the much larger total universe;

Are you under some sort of PRESUMPTION that what bit of the Universe 'you', human beings, can see, at ANY time throughout human,s existence, IS the ENTIRE Universe.

If you do, then you are OBVIOUSLY Wrong, as has been countless times PROVED True, ALREADY, throughout human history.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am which you, because you are not human, have information beyond the technological abilities of this crude ape species, and know for a fact that the really, really big universe is infinite and eternal.

LOL Here we have ANOTHER PRIME example of how BELIEFS and/or ASSUMPTIONS lead you, human beings, SO FAR ASTRAY.

I have NEVER SAID NOR EVER THOUGHT what you say here.

But anyway;

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am In which case, why are we arguing about galactic redshift?

Because redshift 'data' helps in VERIFYING what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True. That is; the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:39 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:07 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:08 am
Do the showing

Are you OPEN to the Fact that the Universe could be infinite and eternal?

I will be after you show me.

Okay, then you WILL have some WAITING TO DO.

SEE, absolutely NO one can SHOW some 'thing' to some one while they BELIEVE that 'thing' does NOT exist or is NOT possible.

You being CLOSED to it possible being true that the Universe IS infinite and eternal SHOWS and REVEALS what you ACTUAL BELIEVE is true here.

Age wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 11:56 pm As I will SHOW.

Go on then

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 am...I was the one that POINTED THIS OUT PREVIOUSLY, to you, which you are now copying and saying.

You read it in my book; page 5 https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... -guns.html At least it shows you are capable of learning.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 amLOL if this is what you want to BELIEVE IS TRUE, then you are MORE THAN WELCOME TO BELIEVE 'it'.

Thank you; I will.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 amBUT, it does NOT make 'it' true AT ALL.

Yeah, but it probably is.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am...why are we arguing about galactic redshift?

Because redshift 'data' helps in VERIFYING what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True. That is; the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

No it doesn't. If you want to claim that galactic redshift supports your belief that the universe is infinite and eternal, you have to explain how.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:31 amSEE, absolutely NO one can SHOW some 'thing' to some one while they BELIEVE that 'thing' does NOT exist or is NOT possible.

That is true of many people. You are one of them. Here's that link to projection again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection Read it this time, and then have a look in the mirror.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:21 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 amYou read it in my book; page 5 https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... -guns.html At least it shows you are capable of learning.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 amLOL if this is what you want to BELIEVE IS TRUE, then you are MORE THAN WELCOME TO BELIEVE 'it'.

Thank you; I will.

Here we have ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of HOW and WHY human beings can be completely AND utterly DEAD in relation to learning and becoming wiser.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:21 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 amBUT, it does NOT make 'it' true AT ALL.

Yeah, but it probably is.

LOL So, you WILL BELIEVE some thing is true, even with the knowledge that it might NOT even be true AT ALL.

This one, ALONE, is PROVIDING MORE PROOF, than i was ever hoping for. So, thank you "uwot".

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:21 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:04 am...why are we arguing about galactic redshift?

Because redshift 'data' helps in VERIFYING what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True. That is; the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

No it doesn't.

We have NOT YET REALLY BEGUN. BECAUSE you keep SHUTING DOWN and CLOSING OFF.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:21 pm If you want to claim that galactic redshift supports your belief that the universe is infinite and eternal, you have to explain how.

Are you SERIOUS?

Unlike you I am NOT a BELIEVER regarding this topic of discussion. HOW MANY TIMES do you NEED to told of some thing before you are able to comprehend it?

OF COURSE I HAVE TO explain HOW, and WHY, some thing IS the way it IS, in order for you to learn more and/ or anew. I was in the process of doing that. That was until you made the CLAIM like; redshift 'data' does NOT verify that the Universe is infinite and eternal.

By CLAIMING this you are SHOWING and PROVING just how CLOSED you REALLY ARE here.

ONCE you can just AGREE WITH and ACCEPT that redshift 'data' could be the very 'data' that verifies an infinite and eternal Universe, then we can proceed. But, if you WANT TO REMAIN CLOSED and BELIEVING that it can NOT, then that is the END, correct?

I do NOT think you have gone more than two replies to me without CONTRADICTING "yourself". You can NOT logically say you are OPEN to some thing could be true but then CLAIM some thing is NOT true, in relation to that thing, without LOOKING AT EVERY thing regarding this.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:25 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:31 amSEE, absolutely NO one can SHOW some 'thing' to some one while they BELIEVE that 'thing' does NOT exist or is NOT possible.

That is true of many people. You are one of them. Here's that link to projection again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection Read it this time, and then have a look in the mirror.

LOL

If only you KNEW "uwot", if only you KNEW.

Let us NOT FORGET that I am thee ONE WITHOUT BELIEF here, and it is YOU who BELIEVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY that redshift 'data' could NOT verify that the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

SO, the 'projecting', AND the NOT being able to learn MORE could ONLY apply to you here.

Now, you just made the CLAIM that it is I who HAS a BELIEF, so let us SEE you if you can back up and support THIS CLAIM OF YOURS here.

Also, what is becoming increasingly CLEAR is just HOW MUCH and HOW OFTEN you resort to these ATTEMPTS at DEFLECTION EVERY time I start getting CLOSER to EXPOSING that the Universe IS, ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY, infinite and eternal, and which is helped VERIFIED by the VERY 'data' you want to CLAIM VERIFIES the OPPOSITE.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:31 pm...it is YOU who BELIEVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY that redshift 'data' could NOT verify that the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

Age, I have had an epiphany! I suddenly realise I have been wrong all these years about how galactic redshift supports the theory that the universe is expanding and it proves the universe is infinite and eternal. My only problem is that I can't explain why. Please enlighten me.

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:31 pm...it is YOU who BELIEVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY that redshift 'data' could NOT verify that the Universe IS infinite and eternal.

Age, I have had an epiphany! I suddenly realise I have been wrong all these years about how galactic redshift supports the theory that the universe is expanding and it proves the universe is infinite and eternal.

Okay, but wat are you now basing this epiphany and/or new BELIEF on, EXACTLY?

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm My only problem is that I can't explain why.

You could NOT explain WHY your old BELIEF about how galactic redshift supported the theory that the Universe is expanding, EITHER. But that NEVER STOPPED you CLAIMING that that IS, EXACTLY, what happens and occurs.

WHY do you seem some what concerned this time?

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm Please enlighten me.

BEFORE I can do this, I need you to inform me of how you define the 'Universe' word.

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:08 pm

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pmPlease enlighten me.

BEFORE I can do this, I need you to inform me of how you define the 'Universe' word.

Age, you are the enlightened one - you tell me: what does 'universe' mean?

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:12 pm

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:08 pm

uwot wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pmPlease enlighten me.

BEFORE I can do this, I need you to inform me of how you define the 'Universe' word.

Age, you are the enlightened one

If you say and NELIEVE SO.

- you tell me: what does 'universe' mean?

The word 'Universe', like EVERY other word, can mean whatever ANY one WANYS 'it' to mean.

Now, if we can come to AN AGREEMENT and an ACCEPTANCE that the word 'Universe' could mean, or refer to; TOTALITY, ALL-THERE-IS, or just plain old Everything, then we can keep moving along here.

Do you AGREE WITH and ACCEPT any or all of these?

If no, then WHY NOT?

But is yes, then okay.