Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:43 pm Why then are you advocating on behalf of people who, according to you, are asking "unrealistically" to be inauthentically and "arbitrarily" "categorized" or "classified" as male or female?

Why are you straw-manning my position? I explicitly stated that realism has nothing to do with this. Those are your words in my mouth.

Categorize them however you want after you've figured out which bathroom they are allowed to use.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:43 pm Why then are you advocating on behalf of people who, according to you, are asking "unrealistically" to be inauthentically and "arbitrarily" "categorized" or "classified" as male or female?

Why are you straw-manning my position?

Categorize them however you want. Give them a bathroom!

They can use the men's toilet. Or do you think any man in a dress and a wig should be able to use women's toilets? You don't think that might be just a 'tad' dangerous? You don't think there might be opportunistic pervs out there?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:46 pm They can use the men's toilet.

Or do you think any man in a dress and a wig should be able to use women's toilets? You don't think that might be just a 'tad' dangerous? You don't think there might be opportunistic pervs out there?

I am sure a man in a dress could pee in ANY toilet.

It's just that they are being bullied in BOTH toilets.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:43 pm Why then are you advocating on behalf of people who, according to you, are asking "unrealistically" to be inauthentically and "arbitrarily" "categorized" or "classified" as male or female?

Why are you straw-manning my position? I explicitly stated that realism has nothing to do with this.

I'm trying to understand a position that seems to contradict completely your agenda. If, as you seem to say, "categories" do not refer to anything in "reality," then trans-wanting is a wanting going from nothing to nothing.

That's the implication of your position.

Categorize them however you want after you've figured out which bathroom they are allowed to use.

In your view, there are no legitimate bathrooms for anyone. All bathrooms should just have blank doors. After all, there are no "categories" that refer to anything "real".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:50 pm I'm trying to understand a position that seems to contradict completely your agenda.

Contradictions don't matter in practice. Look past them.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:50 pm If, as you seem to say, "categories" do not refer to anything in "reality," then trans-wanting is a wanting going from nothing to nothing.

Then stop focusing on the categories and focus on the bathrooms.

Which bathroom should a tranny use? Male or female?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:50 pm In your view, there are no legitimate bathrooms for anyone.

Bullshit. Legitimacy is a red herring.

I would pee in any bathroom. Even the women's bathroom. It's illegal in my country - if I do it, I go to jail.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:50 pm All bathrooms should just have blank doors. After all, there are no "categories" that refer to anything "real".

Those are called Unisex bathrooms. They exist. Have you never seen one?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:49 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:46 pm They can use the men's toilet.

Or do you think any man in a dress and a wig should be able to use women's toilets? You don't think that might be just a 'tad' dangerous? You don't think there might be opportunistic pervs out there?

I am sure a man in a dress could pee in ANY toilet.

It's just that they are being bullied in BOTH toilets.

Boo hoo.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:52 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:49 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:46 pm They can use the men's toilet.

Or do you think any man in a dress and a wig should be able to use women's toilets? You don't think that might be just a 'tad' dangerous? You don't think there might be opportunistic pervs out there?

I am sure a man in a dress could pee in ANY toilet.

It's just that they are being bullied in BOTH toilets.

Boo hoo.

There is no data to support your claim that trannies put you in any danger.
There is data to support that trannies are being bullied in BOTH BATHROOMS.

So your fear of trannies is exactly that! BOO HOO! They have more reason to be afraid than you do.

So get over yourself and let them use your bathrooms (and do observe how stupid this is).

We are both shouting "Let them use YOUR bathroom!". Till we figure out WHOSE bathroom they get to use, trannies can't pee.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:54 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:52 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:49 pm
I am sure a man in a dress could pee in ANY toilet.

It's just that they are being bullied in BOTH toilets.

Boo hoo.

There is no data to support your claim that trannies put you in any danger.

So your fear of trannies is exactly that! BOO HOO!

So get over yourself and let them use your bathrooms (and do observe how stupid this is).

We are both shouting "Let them use YOUR bathroom!". Till we figure out WHOSE bathroom they get to use, trannies can't pee.

Actually there is A LOT of data to support the fact that men can be very dangerous to women.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:58 pm Actually there is A LOT of data to support the fact that men can be very dangerous to women.

And there is lots of data to support the fact that trannies get bullied in BOTH BATHROOMS.

SO while we are both coming up with reasons to shout "Not in MY bathroom - use the other one!" (a bickering with no resolve) where do trannies go to pee?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:59 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:58 pm Actually there is A LOT of data to support the fact that men can be very dangerous to women.

And there is lots of data to support the fact that trannies get bullied in BOTH BATHROOMS.

SO while we are both coming up with reasons to shout "Not in MY bathroom" where do trannies go to pee?

Have a separate tranny toilet then. I don't really care. Just stay out of our's.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:02 pm Have a separate tranny toilet then. I don't really care. Just stay out of our's.

So your vote is for 3-gendered bathrooms then? Is anybody in your country pushing for such law or initiative?

Because if they aren't.... Trannies still got nowhere to pee.

Trans'woman' rapes women at a women's prison.

Sure, man categorizes, by recognizing and naming what exists.

Man recognizes (he does not invent) differences, peculiars, particulars, qualities and characteristics, man recognizes (he does not invent) the various combinations of differences, peculiarities, particulars, qualities, characteristics; man recognizes, then he applies placeholders to the lot.

Gender/sex is fixed and immutable; we don't invent this, we only recognize it.

A man can no more be a woman than he can be a platypus.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:03 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:02 pm Have a separate tranny toilet then. I don't really care. Just stay out of our's.

So your vote is for 3-gendered bathrooms then? Is anybody in your country pushing for such law or initiative?

Because if they aren't.... Trannies still got nowhere to pee.

They do have somewhere to pee: the men's toilet.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:07 pm Sure, man categorizes, by recognizing and naming what exists.

Henry,

EVERYTHING exist - the whole Universe. It's one big Existence.

Nothing exists in categories.

Cognition is what classifies things into categories. ALL categories are human constructs in as much as they are ARBITRARY.

You can categorize people as "men" and "women". When you define "man" as "has penis" and "woman" as "has vagina".
You can categorize people as "tall" and "short". When you define "short" as "anybody below 1.7 meters"
You can categorize people as "smart" and "stupid" even though you can't define it (you know it when you see it).