Philosophy Now Forum

Obvious Leo wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Let me put this proposition forward for your consideration.
If man were to find a way to become 'immortal', do you agree that eventually increasing entropy is going to become a real issue for said 'immortality'?

Are you referring to the energy content of a sub-system of the physical universe or to the energy content of the universe as a whole? If you're referring to a sub-system of the universe then your statement is correct because its energy content will deplete according to the second law of thermodynamics and its entropy will increase correspondingly. However if you're referring to the universe as a whole then the rules are different. On this universal scale the first law of thermodynamics trumps the second because the total energy content of the universe can be neither augmented nor depleted. However on this scale a quite different phenomenon is observed, which is sometimes referred to as the fourth law of thermodynamics. Without augmenting its energy content the universe as a whole is evolving from the simple to the complex, which is rather like the second law happening in reverse, because the total entropy of the universe is in fact DECREASING. We have 13.8 billion years worth of evidence for this, so this is not a controversial proposition. However it is an inconvenient truth for physicists, whose current models can provide no possible explanation for this. Even Newton's god hypothesis won't cut it.

Yes, i am referring to the energy within a sub-system of the universe. A system such as the solar-system which man has evolved within.

attofishpi wrote: Yes, i am referring to the energy within a sub-system of the universe. A system such as the solar-system which man has evolved within.

Fine. In that case you're right. As a subsystem of the universe our solar system is subject to the second law of thermodynamics and is therefore mortal. Its entire matter and energy content will ultimately be dispersed until such time as gravity works its magic and reforms it into new cosmological structures. We need assume no gods to account for this.

Obvious Leo wrote:Fine. In that case you're right. As a subsystem of the universe our solar system is subject to the second law of thermodynamics and is therefore mortal. Its entire matter and energy content will ultimately be dispersed until such time as gravity works its magic and reforms it into new cosmological structures. We need assume no gods to account for this.

Ok. But as per my opening post, other than atheism, i am looking at two alternate possibilities that ultimately make up our reality. This argument i am making is in relation to the point 3. of my OP, although point 2. still has validity.
So lets say that man finds a way to become practically immortal, our cells are immune to senescence. No longer will our genetic beings degrade and fail such that we die naturally.

In such a system subject to the second law of thermodyanamics, is it inconceivable that eventually man may then, as resources deplete, devise a method where reality is simulated far more efficiently? That eventually, senescence is reintroduced with reincarnation where when we are reborn we are left with much doubt and 10 commandments to abide by?

I'm suggesting with point 3. that this has already occurred.
Its a difficult challenge that i am faced with. Having been personally made aware that this entity - God - or 'God' exists (for over 17 years), i am attempting to rationalise how such an entity actually exists. I know it is not an entity that is as benevolent as the church portrays.
I find forums quite annoying when atheists bounce around suggesting theists are idiots, as if atheists actually know the true makeup of reality. I'm not a theist, i know this entitiy exists, i guess there will never be a term for that...but im sure as an atheist you will conjure many.

attofishpi. I'm afraid I can't make much sense out of your hypothetical scenario and would prefer not to comment on it. Not only do I find the notion of immortality absurd I can't for the life of me see why anybody would want it.

Obvious Leo wrote:attofishpi. I'm afraid I can't make much sense out of your hypothetical scenario and would prefer not to comment on it. Not only do I find the notion of immortality absurd I can't for the life of me see why anybody would want it.

Its ok, i wasn't expecting much of a response..ultimately you would have had to admit that a 'God'-like being would eventually exist. I find the notion of immortality abhorrent, yet medical resources are being pummeled with cash to provide such a thing for the mindless masses. The masses will sign their material wealth away to secure such a thing, i assure you.
As i keep instructing God or 'God' i wish this life i have to be my last, i never want to be the subject of such a *** again.