Philosophy Now Forum

Have any atheists been moved toward theism by any argument offered in this thread?

Have any theists been moved toward atheism by any argument offered in this thread?

henry quirk wrote:Have any atheists been moved toward theism by any argument offered in this thread?

Have any theists been moved toward atheism by any argument offered in this thread?

See response on companion post, "Theist In A Foxhole."

I'm moving back towards agnosticism from dystheism. But I shift a lot, and my antinatalism is my core, religion coming a distant second in importance in my thought process.

Dalek,

This shifting of yours: any of it fueled by either 'foxhole' thread?

We're all "in the foxhole," Henry...whether in two years or fifty. Sooner or later, the mortality rate around here is always the same: 100% -- everybody dies. And everybody has to deal with that reality, one way or another. Only by refusing to think at all while we're alive, and then dying in some sudden accident, is it possible to avoid it...and after death, it's not possible to avoid it at all, if I'm right.

That would seem to make this just about the most important topic you could have. And if we're not making progress, what could be more important that trying anyway?

Mannie,

I just asked two questions...didn't challenge any one's 'right' to piss away time as they like.

henry quirk wrote:Dalek,

This shifting of yours: any of it fueled by either 'foxhole' thread?

Partly. It's made me consider why and what I do, or rather sharpened the thinking behind it. It's also my reading, concurrently, of Bertrand Russell. Let's face it, I'll never know for sure either way, and I can't honestly argue for something I, myself, am unsure of. My dystheism is a convenient argument, no one being able to completely disprove it, theist or atheist, but is it any truer for it?

Dalek Prime wrote: Let's face it, I'll never know for sure either way,...

This is a strange statement.

I hear it a lot from people, but I can never see the sense of it. It sounds like you're saying, "I don't know X right now, so I can never know X." And that seems completely irrational to me, if that's the implication.

I don't know the name of the capital city of Eritrea right now. In fact, I know of no one who does...so far as I know. But does that mean that nobody knows or can know? Does it mean I'm in a permanent state of mental gridlock over it?

Oh, wait a minute...Asmara. Now we know. See how easy that was?

So what sense is being conveyed by "I'll never know..."?

So then, why do you advise us to "face it"?

Is "I may never know for a certainty" more palatable? That's what I meant, but not said.

I can feel my dystheism making a reappearance, or is it misanthropy? Perhaps both.

Dalek Prime wrote:Is "I may never know for a certainty" more palatable? That's what I meant, but not said.

Oh, the "may" makes all the difference in the world. And the "I" helps too, because it limits the claim to a statement about a personal moment-in-time.

As for the "certainty" bit, it's fair to say you'll only have "certainty" of an absolute kind in maths and abstract logic. Any empirical facts we all will have to accept on probabilistic evidence.

So all that's fair.

Otay then lol!

Dalek Prime wrote:Otay then lol!

Are you quoting Velvet Jones? Awesome.

Sorry. "Little Rascals/Our Gang". William Thomas Jr.

Dalek Prime wrote:Sorry. "Little Rascals/Our Gang". William Thomas Jr.

Actually, I think I was remembering Eddie Murphy's SNL take off on Buckwheat, so that makes sense. He also did "Velvet Jones," of course.

Blast from the past, either way.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Sorry. "Little Rascals/Our Gang". William Thomas Jr.

Actually, I think I was remembering Eddie Murphy's SNL take off on Buckwheat, so that makes sense. He also did "Velvet Jones," of course.

Blast from the past, either way.

Lol! I do recall Eddie Murphy's take on it.