For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
There is no high or low, only different. To attribute high or low, is always self serving.Lev Muishkin wrote:Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
I take your point but reject it. I'm not ranking, but recognising learning and progress.SpheresOfBalance wrote:There is no high or low, only different. To attribute high or low, is always self serving.Lev Muishkin wrote:Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
So 'the' asteroid is coming, you can either sit there and play a symphony for it's arrival, requiem, of course, or you can grab your bicycle and hit the road in the opposite direction?
To rank ones abilities, purely mental masturbation of meaninglessness!
Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
An extraterrestrial might not get it, let alone be able to actually hear it. And we might feel the same on his planet. So what does that actually mean, philosophically?Lev Muishkin wrote:I take your point but reject it. I'm not ranking, but recognising learning and progress.SpheresOfBalance wrote:There is no high or low, only different. To attribute high or low, is always self serving.Lev Muishkin wrote:
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
So 'the' asteroid is coming, you can either sit there and play a symphony for it's arrival, requiem, of course, or you can grab your bicycle and hit the road in the opposite direction?
To rank ones abilities, purely mental masturbation of meaninglessness!
I hope you don't mind my parallel edit
When a person first plays the piano his or her skill is low,
When a person first tries to play the piano, there is no ability,
and it requires effort and practice to master it.
it shall require much effort and practice if one really cares to master it
As progress is made the skill becomes higher,
If one really cares to master it, their ability increases,
and it is also true to say that not all persons are bale to achieve a level of excellence beyond a certain point.
but it's always true that some want it more than others, that only the ones that truly want it shall achieve the excellence, that others have labeled as such.
To say a monkey plays a piano 'differently' but not at a lower level than Daniel Barenboim is hideously stupid, and denies DB's life's work.
I'm not sure, when you say, "at a lower level," do you mean amplitude?Do you have a hard-on for DB? How important should DB's life's work be?
I would say that what is definitely hideously ignorant (not stupid), from a philosophical point of view at least, is for one to not understand that what constitutes lower or higher level, as you seem to mean it, is ambiguous and arbitrary, or in other words, "subjective," At least according to my Art History Professor at University!
High level skill is different than a low level skill.SpheresOfBalance wrote:Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.An extraterrestrial might not get it, let alone be able to actually hear it. And we might feel the same on his planet. So what does that actually mean, philosophically?Lev Muishkin wrote:I take your point but reject it. I'm not ranking, but recognising learning and progress.SpheresOfBalance wrote: There is no high or low, only different. To attribute high or low, is always self serving.
So 'the' asteroid is coming, you can either sit there and play a symphony for it's arrival, requiem, of course, or you can grab your bicycle and hit the road in the opposite direction?
To rank ones abilities, purely mental masturbation of meaninglessness!
I hope you don't mind my parallel edit
When a person first plays the piano his or her skill is low,
When a person first tries to play the piano, there is no ability,
and it requires effort and practice to master it.
it shall require much effort and practice if one really cares to master it
As progress is made the skill becomes higher,
If one really cares to master it, their ability increases,
and it is also true to say that not all persons are bale to achieve a level of excellence beyond a certain point.
but it's always true that some want it more than others, that only the ones that truly want it shall achieve the excellence, that others have labeled as such.
To say a monkey plays a piano 'differently' but not at a lower level than Daniel Barenboim is hideously stupid, and denies DB's life's work.
I'm not sure, when you say, "at a lower level," do you mean amplitude?
I would say that what is definitely hideously ignorant (not stupid), from a philosophical point of view at least, is for one to not understand that what constitutes lower or higher level, as you seem to mean it, is ambiguous and arbitrary, or in other words, "subjective," At least according to my Art History Professor at University!
Differences!
Lev Muishkin wrote:Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
He looked so fake, his jacket had shoulders wider than his, thankyou for shoulder pads, big ones.
In my time I've tried the violin, bass guitar and piano. But I was always best on the drumkit.thedoc wrote:Lev Muishkin wrote:Wyman wrote:Unconscious motor responses don't seem to require any higher level cognitive abilities.
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
LV, do you play a musical instrument? and if so, what do you play, instrument and pieces?
I did not mean to hit you so philosophically hard. I'm sorry!Lev Muishkin wrote:High level skill is different than a low level skill.
More ability is a higher level than lower ability; yes a difference of LEVEL.
Why not try 'Angry Birds"? - your favourite game. Level One is easy, and level Two is harder.
If I were to call you a fucking idiot. That means that your ability to think is at a lower level than mine.
Do you remember at school when you were in remedial class, and they told you and the other drongos that your appreciation of maths, and English was "different" from the kids in the top set; those that managed to graduate with honours. Remember? Yes, well when they told you, that you were "different", that was just a polite way of saying you were stupid. Ahh, remember? Think hard. Yes, they called you 'special". Do you remember?
"Special" is different, is less able. Lower achievement; stupid.
By music or ear, or both? I play the piano but I'm a slave to the music, and haven't been able to play by ear, yet.Lev Muishkin wrote:In my time I've tried the violin, bass guitar and piano. But I was always best on the drumkit.thedoc wrote:Lev Muishkin wrote:]
That is not the case with examples of excellence. Drumming and piano playing require unconscious viceral knowledge of the instruments; the score, and a deep emotional commitment to the music.
People without high level cognition are not capable of excellence in these fields.
LV, do you play a musical instrument? and if so, what do you play, instrument and pieces?
Lev Muishkin wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgKy5E9i_RU