Philosophy Now Forum

Chaz Bufe
Reasons to Abandon Christianity

Christianity breeds authoritarianism.

Given that Christians claim to have the one true faith, to have a book that is the Word of God, and (in many cases) to receive guidance directly from God, they feel little or no compunction about using force and coercion to enforce "God's Will" (which they, of course, interpret and understand). Given that they believe (or pretend) that they're receiving orders from the Almighty (who would cast them into hell should they disobey), it's little wonder that they feel no reluctance, and in fact are eager, to intrude into the most personal aspects of the lives of nonbelievers.

Of course, some Christians are more authoritarian than others. The fundamentalists and the evangelicals in particular are often considerably more arrogant and autocratic than those in other congregations. I recall my own experiences however in the Protestant Community Church and none of them seemed in the least bit authoritarian. The glories of the Christian God were praised, but not in such a way those who were not "one of us" were seen to be as something other than true Christians. Nothing at all like IC and what some construe to be his ridiculous attacks against Catholics. It's almost as though Catholics themselves will be sent to Hell because they are not "true Christians".

This is most obvious today in the area of sex, with Christians attempting to deny women the right to abortion and to mandate near-useless abstinence-only sex "education" in the public schools. It's also obvious in the area of education, with Christians attempting to force biology teachers to teach their creation myth (but not those of Hindus, Native Americans, et al.) in place of (or as being equally valid as) the very well established theory of evolution. But the authoritarian tendencies of Christianity reach much further than this.

What becomes crucial here of course is the extent to which the religionists among us are able to elect politicians willing to chip away at the separation of church and state. Among other things, they can put religious fanatics on the courts:

"In the three recent rulings, the court decided that government actions intended to maintain a separation of church and state had instead infringed separate rights to free speech or the free exercise of religion also protected by the First Amendment." Reuters

Or, from the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/news/religious-lib ... -and-state

Up until well into the 20th century in the United States and other Christian countries (notably Ireland), Christian churches pressured governments into passing laws forbidding the sale and distribution of birth control devices, and they also managed to enact laws forbidding even the description of birth control devices.

Indeed, here in America the Christians/Catholics have all but taken over the Supreme Court. Sure, they will assure us, their rulings reflect only their own studied interpretation of the Constitution. Like that fools anyone. Well, unless you count the millions of fanatical fundamentalists and evangelicals flocking to Donald Trump and his crony capitalist ilk. How gullible you must be to actually believe that Trump himself isn't playing them for fools.

The rich and the powerful often do. They'll do what they must to keep the the sheep flocking to the polls. And then behind the curtains they pursue policies that make them all the richer and more powerful still. Playing that or the race card.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:44 am Nice one Dubes! But well off the mark.

That's exactly what IC would say! When you have no other argument available simply deny the one that was made.

What could be easier! It's a technique constantly practiced; no effort required

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:00 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:44 am Nice one Dubes! But well off the mark.

That's exactly what IC would say! When you have no other argument available simply deny the one that was made.

What could be easier! It's a technique constantly practiced; no effort required

There really was no argument proffered. You repeated, rephrased perhaps, the same statement you’ve been making for a long time.

Also, IC says many things, no one of them at all like what I say.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:39 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:00 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:44 am Nice one Dubes! But well off the mark.

That's exactly what IC would say! When you have no other argument available simply deny the one that was made.

What could be easier! It's a technique constantly practiced; no effort required

There really was no argument proffered. You repeated, rephrased perhaps, the same statement you’ve been making for a long time.

Also, IC says many things, no one of them at all like what I say.

True in the sense that your religion or metaphysic is different from his; but the method of argumentation is much the same as already noted.

Talk if you would about my religion or metaphysic. What is it?

It might help the case you are trying to make.

Perhaps too more about the method of argumentation as you understand it.

It is hard to have my sense of my greatness impugned, but given my lofty position I guess I’ll have to submit to the disgrace.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:00 am I had 7 new sign-ups today ($10,493.00) and 5-6 drippingly sensuous PMs from girl fans world-wide. I told you assholes: there’s more pussy than even Sinatra had in the life-renovation/deep psychic healing business.

Thank you for healing mine.

Northern Europe modified some Christian doctrine and allowed the creation of civilization and a religious doctrine far more life-affirming.

More life-affirming than what? and in what way?

The pagan religions?
Judaism?
The Greek/Roman version of Christianity? I suppose that you mean this one.

Christianity is considered to be nihilistic by some, in spite of these "modifications".

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:15 am
AJ: "My point is that Christianity is completely psychological."

Yes, but is it 'real'?

Christianity defines man, man's relationship to other men, and man's relationship to God.

It asks, and answers: what is man? How should he live?

Yes, this is a 'psychological' exercise, but is it 'real'?

I have no idea what any of that means.

Real how or what?

What does "completely psychological" mean?

I consider metaphysics real.

It literally means beyond physics. Therefore beyond real.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:55 amI have used the term Christianesque. And I do not take that term to be (necessarily) negative.

Neither do I. If your concern is with, as I say, Catholic Culture and not with, as I say, the water in the clay jar or the cupped hands, then that's where your concern is. Can't see any reason, in that case, to worry much about your religion or metaphysic. Except as initial organizing element, neither seem to mean all that much in your grand scheme.

Understand: I'm not criticizing. You may believe in the metaphysic, but it ain't your 'purpose', in-thread, to examine or defend it. Your 'purpose' is a cultural apologetic. And that's okay.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:45 am Talk if you would about my religion or metaphysic. What is it?

The one you're desperately trying to sell.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:45 amIt might help the case you are trying to make.

Wasn't aware that I was trying to make a case! To whom should I make it? Merely expressing my views; they're all for free.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:45 amPerhaps too more about the method of argumentation as you understand it.

In cases such as yours and others how to avoid an argument you can't respond to.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:00 am I had 7 new sign-ups today ($10,493.00) and 5-6 drippingly sensuous PMs from girl fans world-wide. I told you assholes: there’s more pussy than even Sinatra had in the life-renovation/deep psychic healing business.

If true in wholes or halves, it goes to show how inundated we are in this world by excruciatingly stupid people. Nothing wrong with ripping them off to your heart's content. By all means continue! It seems the "pussy" factor (since you've mentioned it a few times) is as much a metaphysic as any you have to offer or sell.

phyllo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:09 pm

Northern Europe modified some Christian doctrine and allowed the creation of civilization and a religious doctrine far more life-affirming.

More life-affirming than what? and in what way?

The pagan religions?
Judaism?
The Greek/Roman version of Christianity? I suppose that you mean this one.

Original Christianity was a religious movement that hated the world and rejected the world. It began as an *end of the world cult*. It had a strong ascetic tendency. Certainly in comparison to traditional Judaism it was *life-negating*. Various groups in Judea -- the Essenes for example -- also had existential philosophies based in similar negations.

The Northern European peoples received Christianity, but modified those tendencies, and built a civilization. My understanding is that the N. European civilization compartmentalized religious world-negation and asceticism to the monks and the monasteries.

Christianity is considered to be nihilistic by some, in spite of these "modifications".

I am not sure if I understand what you are referring to. Nihilism and world-negation are not the same.

phyllo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:15 pm It literally means beyond physics. Therefore beyond real.

Metaphysics is a rather involved topic -- and note that I am developing the 15th Chapter of The Course and will dedicate it to that topic exclusively.

If you mean *beyond what is manifest* your definition does not hold. All around us the metaphysical manifests and has extreme effect. How can it therefore be classed as *beyond real*? It is in fact extremely real (in effect) but invisible or un-locatable.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:04 pm The one you're desperately trying to sell.

But I need more information about what, exactly, you see me as *selling*. What exactly is being sold?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:51 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:55 amI have used the term Christianesque. And I do not take that term to be (necessarily) negative.

Neither do I. If your concern is with, as I say, Catholic Culture and not with, as I say, the water in the clay jar or the cupped hands, then that's where your concern is. Can't see any reason, in that case, to worry much about your religion or metaphysic. Except as initial organizing element, neither seem to mean all that much in your grand scheme.

Hmmm. I think I see what you are getting at.

But I think that behind all religious expressions it is wise or necessary to try to locate *the metaphysical content*. So if I understand you correctly that would be the *water*. Catholic culture would be what is created through contact with the *water*. But itself is not the water.

Understand: I'm not criticizing. You may believe in the metaphysic, but it ain't your 'purpose', in-thread, to examine or defend it. Your 'purpose' is a cultural apologetic. And that's okay.

If I have a purpose it is really to work through my own uncertainties and also my own existential confusion. I am mostly at a loss to define what the function of religion is.

My understanding goes like this: in the last 150 years we have gained so much material understanding and power over what was formerly totally out of control, that we have -- literally -- opened up the possibility for the first time in history for many people, for masses of people, to live a relatively pain- and suffering-free existence for 60-70 years (and the numbers keep increasing).

Prior to this, life really was brutish, painful and short, and life really was a vale of tears. Salvation was longed for less to be 'freed from the consequences of sin' but as the neurotic hope for a non-physical existence in a non-physical world as a reward for remaining decent while one suffered.

But what happened completely upturned the former dreary reality: instead of life being surrounded on all sides with terrible suffering (consider infant mortality just 100 years ago and any number of ailments with which people were stricken) now it is expected that people will have 40 and even 50 years of genuinely livable life. So, 'the world' opened up as a possibility for enjoyment, pleasure, self-development, but at the same time the issue of how to occupy one's time became a chief concern. (In our own First World of course).

Hedonism and all the earthly pleasures are now, functionally and abundantly, at our disposal. It is now a question of what pleasure we will seek, not all those pleasures that are denied to us and what substitute to replace pleasure with.

Now, as it turns out, if we are to visualize a god or to conceive of a god, the usefulness of that god is in amplifying pleasure, or perhaps satisfaction is the world I seek.

And what does a fully actuated, healthy, wealthy and vivacious person need to ask of god? Of what are his prayers composed? To lead him to negation of all the possibilities of pleasure in his work, his family life, his career, his enjoyments?

The function of the Christian religion, perhaps especially in Protestant Evangelism, has shifted tremendously.

I came into the examination of all the cultural issues through the realization of the effects of what I have termed *liberal rot*. To notice it requires honing one's vision to be able to perceive it as a *negative*. But all who read here must know (should know) that the general trend of the turn to the Right and into Conservatism (called sometimes Alt-Right and Radical Right or Dissident Right) all take aim at this liberal rot. It is a critical posture that proposes an alternative or a *cure*.