Philosophy Now Forum

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:35 pm Yes, a part of me really does want to believe again in the Christian God as I once did.

As a kid.

Sure, but you are no longer a kid.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:20 pm

"He's looking for sheep to follow him."

No, I look for sheep to devour!

Is there a reason for that? Are you intellectualus Carnivorous? Should we feed you intellectual food or should we feed you intellectuals?

Must have scared him away since he hasn't responded.

@AJ: For life's sake, AJ, do I need to hang garlic on my door or something? Will that attract you, maybe make the door taste better? Otherwise, you're welcome to knock any time.

Couldn’t hurt ….

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:46 pm Couldn’t hurt ….

OK. Consider there being a piece of garlic hanging on my door.

Hello, AJ. How are you today? Would you like to come out and play?

Well, anytime you feel up to having a discussion, let me know. I'll find something else to do in the meantime.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:20 pm

"He's looking for sheep to follow him."

No, I look for sheep to devour!

No, you just affect a condescending attitude towards people. That doesn't make you a predator, it makes you an arse hole.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:27 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:53 pm Well, he seems to me to have been a man who did not lack consistency or intellectual courage, and who seems to have believed he could defend his own views...so I expect he would have watched them, at the very least.

So I suspect it would have led to some very good conversation.

So, where is Kant's own "demonstrable proof" that a God, the God, the Christian God did in fact exist?

I didn't say I agreed with Kant. Nor did I attribute to him any particular "proof."

I just said he was not the sort to be too craven to watch a few videos, had he had some. And I suspect he'd have interesting and relevant things to say in response.

Over and again: I'm not much interested in what philosophers or theologians deduced about God. Given all that is at stake on both sides of the grave, I am far, far more interested in what they can provide me in the way of substantive and substantial evidence that God does exist. Then I can jettison my grim belief that in a No God world objective morality is out of reach, that my existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless and that my death = oblivion.

That is my main interest in you here. You have managed to go beyond a leap of faith to the Christian God. You claim instead that there is evidence in those 16 or 17 YouTube videos that convinced you that He does in fact reside in Heaven.

You recommended one of them to Gary above.

I watched it myself:

Basically, what is being argued here is that, as the Christian woman says, in the absence of God, all things are permitted. That as philosophers like Camus noted, No God and human existence is essentially meaningless and absurd.

In other words [and I agree with this] if there is no God than there is no basis for objective morality. It is all merely the result of the evolution of life on Earth and "human conventions".

So, the atheist suggests that "human flourishing" ought to be the criteria. And the Christian woman then points out [rightly in my view] that if there is no God than who is to say what flourishing means? She points out how Hitler thought that his Nazi policies were what would accomplish this. And, she notes, certain philosophers have argued that using the tools of philosophy will not lead us to objective morality. And I agree with this in turn.

Then she gets to the bottom line for most Christians: "What happens after you die"?

No God, no afterlife.

She sums it all up: "If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. He intentionally created you. So, your life ultimately does have meaning and value and purpose."

But then the Atheist makes the point, "Well, that doesn't prove that Christianity is true".

And she agrees. She merely points out again how comforted and consoled you can be if you do believe in Christianity.

Even the Church Lady admits that what she tells the atheist isn't proof of the Christian God's existence.

So, is there another video I can watch instead that does establish this. Again, simply note the segment in the video that was most persuasive to you.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:23 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:35 pm Yes, a part of me really does want to believe again in the Christian God as I once did.

As a kid.

Sure, but you are no longer a kid.

That's the point. When you are just starting out in examining yourself philosophically and spiritually, you are likely to be considerably more naive and gullible.

Then as you grow older and acquire new experiences and relationships and access to information and knowledge, you will hopefully become less naive and gullible.

That's why I included this...

...if you ever do have any actual demonstrable proof to substantiate your own ponderous, painfully pedantic assessments of God and religion, please bring it here.

...in my post above.

Start with the most potent evidence first please.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:47 pm …

Gary, Garyyyyy!!!

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:49 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:47 pm …

Gary, Garyyyyy!!!

Interesting. Always violence and gore with you, isn't it?

Did you just try to scare me, to implicate me? Are you the pickpocket who yells "thief" in order to cloak his escape? You're very cunning AJ. You're also very well-read and well-educated. Therefore, I doubt you deceive and sow darkness by either accident or naivete. You ought to be enlightened with the kind of knowledge you appear to possess. I suspect you are very well aware of what you want to accomplish and the devices you use to accomplish it.

IFF I am right in my hunches. IFF you are here to sow strife, then I hope you can deal with what you sow. Because if what I think is true--regardless of whatever may happen to me--you and I may just find out whether every religion in the world is bunk or not. IFF what I believe to be true of you is true, and if the religions of humanity have anything to tell us, then you will pay a hefty price if it is evil in your intent. I know nothing of the divine or spiritual but there is something sinister, hidden, and deceiving about you. IFF what I think is true is true, then by all accounts of human religious experience, you ought to face what you deserve to face but perhaps believe you will never face.

On the other hand, if I'm wrong, AJ, then that was a very odd but somehow enlightening video clip. How strange but cute! Ciao, AJ!

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:27 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:16 pm
So, where is Kant's own "demonstrable proof" that a God, the God, the Christian God did in fact exist?

I didn't say I agreed with Kant. Nor did I attribute to him any particular "proof."

I just said he was not the sort to be too craven to watch a few videos, had he had some. And I suspect he'd have interesting and relevant things to say in response.

Over and again: I'm not much interested in what philosophers or theologians deduced about God. Given all that is at stake on both sides of the grave, I am far, far more interested in what they can provide me in the way of substantive and substantial evidence that God does exist.

But ANY one could provide NOT just 'evidence' but could provide ACTUAL 'proof' that God in fact DOES EXIST but while you BELIEVE otherwise OBVIOUSLY you are NOT OPEN to THE 'proof'.

How MANY TIMES does this NEED to be REPEATED and TOLD before it 'SINKS IN' and IS COMPREHENDED and UNDERSTOOD?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am Then I can jettison my grim belief that in a No God world objective morality is out of reach, that my existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless and that my death = oblivion.

That is my main interest in you here. You have managed to go beyond a leap of faith to the Christian God. You claim instead that there is evidence in those 16 or 17 YouTube videos that convinced you that He does in fact reside in Heaven.

LOL "immanuel can" NOR ANY one could provide even 'evidence' that a male gendered God DOES EXIST, BECAUSE that would be an IMPOSSIBILITY.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am You recommended one of them to Gary above.

I watched it myself:

Basically, what is being argued here is that, as the Christian woman says, in the absence of God, all things are permitted.

LOL WHY? What is God supposed to NOT permit?

As far as I can SEE 'you', human beings, are ABSOLUTELY FREE to do ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing' of YOUR CHOOSING, and thus PERMITTED to do ALL 'things'.

Am I MISSING some 'thing' here. What does God, supposedly, NOT 'permit'?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am That as philosophers like Camus noted, No God and human existence is essentially meaningless and absurd.

In other words [and I agree with this] if there is no God than there is no basis for objective morality.

How about 'you', human beings, WORK OUT what is ACTUALLY True FIRST, BEFORE 'you' move on to OTHER 'things'?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am It is all merely the result of the evolution of life on Earth and "human conventions".

So, the atheist suggests that "human flourishing" ought to be the criteria. And the Christian woman then points out [rightly in my view] that if there is no God than who is to say what flourishing means? She points out how Hitler thought that his Nazi policies were what would accomplish this. And, she notes, certain philosophers have argued that using the tools of philosophy will not lead us to objective morality. And I agree with this in turn.

So, the POINT of you writing in this forum is to just tell us that you see NO point AT ALL in Life and living, right?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am Then she gets to the bottom line for most Christians: "What happens after you die"?

No God, no afterlife.

She sums it all up: "If Christianity is true then each one of us is here for a reason. And life does not end at the grave. And God is the absolute standard of goodness. He knows you. He loves you. He intentionally created you. So, your life ultimately does have meaning and value and purpose."

But then the Atheist makes the point, "Well, that doesn't prove that Christianity is true".

Do BOTH of 'you', that is; the "theist" and the "atheist" even KNOW what "christianity", itself, IS, EXACTLY?

What does, 'If "christianity" is true', even mean or refer to, EXACTLY?

What does "christianity" even mean or refer to, which could then apply to the question, 'if 'it' is true or not'?

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am And she agrees. She merely points out again how comforted and consoled you can be if you do believe in Christianity.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:38 am Even the Church Lady admits that what she tells the atheist isn't proof of the Christian God's existence.

So, is there another video I can watch instead that does establish this. Again, simply note the segment in the video that was most persuasive to you.

If a so-called "christian God" is a "he", then there could NEVER be ANY 'thing' that could establish 'this' as true.

No, really, really SERIOUSLY.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:00 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:23 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:35 pm Yes, a part of me really does want to believe again in the Christian God as I once did.

As a kid.

Sure, but you are no longer a kid.

That's the point. When you are just starting out in examining yourself philosophically and spiritually, you are likely to be considerably more naive and gullible.

AND, after a while you start making ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEVING 'things', so you are likely to be considering more STUBBORN and CLOSED.

As you so CLEARLY SHOW, and PROVE.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:00 am Then as you grow older and acquire new experiences and relationships and access to information and knowledge, you will hopefully become less naive and gullible.

But NOT necessarily so. As some become MORE STUBBORN and MORE CLOSED, as SHOWN and PROVED True by those who BELIEVE that God IS a 'male gendered being/person'. Thus meaning and proving that these ones ARE MORE NAIVE and MORE GULLIBLE than young children are.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:00 am That's why I included this...

...if you ever do have any actual demonstrable proof to substantiate your own ponderous, painfully pedantic assessments of God and religion, please bring it here.

...in my post above.

Start with the most potent evidence first please.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:52 am

No, really, really SERIOUSLY.

Considering the Fact that you are so UTTERLY USELESS in DISCOURSE WITH me, what you say here is about all you can say in response, to me. As you keep PROVING True here.

you can NOT even just answer very simple questions, let alone come even close to even attempting to refute what I say and claim here.