The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2026 8:12 pm
Has Trump brought dishonor to the People of the United States? Yes.

Good grief.

Who are you pandering to? The universe?

What is in your power is that you not bring dishonor to the human race because of being so gullible.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2026 4:40 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2026 3:42 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2026 4:05 pm I'm not any kind of theist... nor have I expressed hate for something that doesn't even exist for me.

Excellent answer. Simple and honest.

*

So you’re saying he just shits on others with suppositions to see if they can dig out.

Gary demonstrably lacks the capacity to be Devil's Advocate for another, although he can be one for himself.

Your continually false conclusions are a perfect example of subjective reality through a warped lens.

Well, your answer is excellent for its honesty that eschewed highfaluttin with brevity ...
rather than for its content or objective implications as a principle of humanity,
and I just have to say that neither observation is warped.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 7:39 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 10:19 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:36 pm
Innate capacity says it all, except for the need to overcome that with faith.

"Innate capacity"? But we also have an "innate capacity" for selfishness, manifestly; or for violence, and for all kinds of other things. So how does the appeal to "innate capacity" tell us anything at all?

Innate capacity obviously tells us that parents have a biological imperative to protect their children for the preservation of the species.

Apparently not. If this were true, there would be no such thing as abortion.

However, that innateness can be overridden by perceived need, greed, faith, or other factors.

So it's not determinative of the outcome, you would have to acknowledge. The having of one "innate capacity" does not tell us which "innate capacity" we are obligated to follow.

An example of faith overriding the innate imperative to protect the child, is God’s command to a parent to kill his own son. The innateness of the faithful parent to protect the son is overridden by faith that killing the son is the right thing to do because God has commanded it, so the natural impulse is over-come and the parent says okay.

So, what does that tell us about God, and that parent?

Kierkegaard worked on that question. You might find his "Fear and Trembling" interesting.

Of course, we must remember that in that story, the son does not die. Still, the question of what it is telling us is an interesting one.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2026 1:17 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 7:39 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 10:19 pm
"Innate capacity"? But we also have an "innate capacity" for selfishness, manifestly; or for violence, and for all kinds of other things. So how does the appeal to "innate capacity" tell us anything at all?

Innate capacity obviously tells us that parents have a biological imperative to protect their children for the preservation of the species.

Apparently not. If this were true, there would be no such thing as abortion.

Walker wrote:Innate capacity obviously tells us that parents have a biological imperative to protect their children for the preservation of the species.

However, that innateness can be overridden by perceived need, greed, faith, or other factors.

People do have innate capacities.
People do have abortions.
Not all people have abortions.

To stay alive is an innate capacity, but innate capacity is not disproven because people overcome that innateness. If overcoming innates were not true, I'd venture to say people wouldn't even jump out of airplanes.

There's lots of innate things folks overcome, such as the aversion to eating a shit sandwich to keep a job.
Some even develop a taste for it.

IC wrote:The having of one "innate capacity" does not tell us which "innate capacity" we are obligated to follow.

Obviously. People are more complex than logic or reasoning, and people do what they must.

The worship gene is more difficult to overcome.
How it manifests varies wildly.
Some even worship power first and foremost, so much so that some clump of cells ain't gonna interfere with the plan.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2026 1:17 pm
Of course, we must remember that in that story, the son does not die. Still, the question of what it is telling us is an interesting one.

Absolutely.

Life (and everything about it) is all that we can ever know.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2026 11:03 pm People do have innate capacities.

Sure. But "innate" is not necessarily as synonym for "good."

IC wrote:The having of one "innate capacity" does not tell us which "innate capacity" we are obligated to follow.

Obviously. People are more complex than logic or reasoning, and people do what they must.

Not quite my point. I'm pointing out that "innate" is also not a synonym for "obligatory."

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2026 1:13 am

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2026 11:03 pm People do have innate capacities.

Sure. But "innate" is not necessarily as synonym for "good."

IC wrote:The having of one "innate capacity" does not tell us which "innate capacity" we are obligated to follow.

Obviously. People are more complex than logic or reasoning, and people do what they must.

Not quite my point. I'm pointing out that "innate" is also not a synonym for "obligatory."

Why, that's right, on both counts.
Not eating that sandwich or not jumping out of that airplane, is not obligatory.

People can override those innates with need.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2026 1:13 am Sure. But "innate" is not necessarily as synonym for "good."

If only it were ... because everyone knows what is good and what is bad.

That's why folks sometimes feel the need to apologize for something they did that was bad, because apology can assuage if properly received after a wronging.

It's like nothing is going on in the world. Everything is fine. No guilt for Trump flunkies. No remorse. Cordial conversation as usual, while otherwise innocent human beings are dying in an unjust war that their leader started. Amazing.

Lacewing, since it's on your list of interests, take note of objectivity in action:

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2026 2:49 am It's like nothing is going on in the world. Everything is fine. No guilt for Trump flunkies. No remorse. Cordial conversation as usual, while otherwise innocent human beings are dying in an unjust war that their leader started. Amazing.

Objective response to Gary:

You have publicized your condition.
The symptoms of your condition are referenceable.
Clinging to delusions, in the extreme, is a symptom.
This manifests as apprehending reality through a thick veil of subjectivity.

Therefore, you must strive to be objective, that is,
Mindful that you are not objective, albeit for medical reasons,
And perhaps the influence of Chomsky at a critical point of biological maturation.

And that means,
You don't see the big picture ...
The big picture being, Objectivity.

You have a doctor's excuse so roll with it,
And don't get bent out of shape, Gary.

I shall now quote Ayn Rand for Gary ...
To both the horror and delight of folks, depending on the particular folk.
(As I recall the words, so hopefully memory didn't change them ...)

"Contradictions don't exist in nature. If you think you've found one, check your premises. One of them is wrong."

Gary: Check your premises that result in a conclusion of: "Sarcastic Amazement."
At least one of your premises is wrong.

Or else, maybe you've witnessed a lot of imagined miracles in your days and nights.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2026 2:49 am It's like nothing is going on in the world. Everything is fine. No guilt for Trump flunkies. No remorse. Cordial conversation as usual, while otherwise innocent human beings are dying in an unjust war that their leader started. Amazing.

It helps to live in the moment and enjoy your own life while the bigger clusterf<ck plays out. Perhaps there are people in the humankind collective that must fall very far and very hard before they realize/learn the implications of vast connections and consequences. In the meantime, if we're all going to be destroyed by the foolish irresponsibility of a great number of people, well, then that's what will be. We do our best to do the right things in our own lives day by day and to enjoy the time we have. Find things that make you laugh... and listen to lots of good music.