Philosophy Now Forum

Do Pagans have a spiritual relationship with water as Aboriginal people have.

"The value of water was further elevated if the water places had spiritual links to ancestral beings. One common being is the Rainbow Serpent, which has many names, identities and stories and is strongly linked to many water places. These stories include the formation of creeks, rivers, lakes, billabongs, lagoons as well as springs and landscapes. In some tellings, if a person dared to upset the resting serpent in a waterhole or at the bottom of a spring, the consequences were dire".

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:50 am Do Pagans have a spiritual relationship with water as Aboriginal people have.

It's difficult to generalise about what Pagans, as a whole, do. Water does play an important part in a lot of Pagan rituals, though.

The warden of the stones knew where the stream was, it was underground, you couldn't hear it.

Did anyone dig to verify this?

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:53 am

The warden of the stones knew where the stream was, it was underground, you couldn't hear it.

Did anyone dig to verify this?

The main point is that everyone had a reaction at the same spot.

Maia wrote:

The main point is that everyone had a reaction at the same spot.

On this point I disagree and think it weakens your opinion.

You are saying because everyone had a reaction at the same spot, this in a way left no doubt for you water was there.

My reaction would be to dig (furiously) to confirm this, to taste and feel is to believe.

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:05 am Maia wrote:

The main point is that everyone had a reaction at the same spot.

On this point I disagree and think it weakens your opinion.

You are saying because everyone had a reaction at the same spot, this in a way left no doubt for you water was there.

My reaction would be to dig (furiously) to confirm this, to taste and feel is to believe.

It doesn't matter if it was water, at least for the purpose of this discussion. What's important is that something affected the rods at the same spot.

The magical world belongs to the irrational.
That is, magical are all those facts that are considered not rationally demonstrable.

The development of rational thinking clears the world by dissolving what was previously considered magical.
The rational world expands by reducing the irrational.

To the point that the belief is now widespread that the real is necessarily rational, while what is not rational is not real.

But just when rationality is triumphing... its insuperable limits become evident.

bobmax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:10 am The magical world belongs to the irrational.
That is, magical are all those facts that are considered not rationally demonstrable.

The development of rational thinking clears the world by dissolving what was previously considered magical.
The rational world expands by reducing the irrational.

To the point that the belief is now widespread that the real is necessarily rational, while what is not rational is not real.

But just when rationality is triumphing... its insuperable limits become evident.

Magical systems, of which there are many, are usually pretty rational.

Maia wrote:

Magical systems, of which there are many, are usually pretty rational.

Only for those who choose not to verify.

You seem to display unquestioning commitment and this is cult like behaviour.

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:33 am Maia wrote:

Magical systems, of which there are many, are usually pretty rational.

Only for those who choose not to verify.

You seem to display unquestioning commitment and this is cult like behaviour.

I honestly can't understand how you would reach that conclusion from what I've said.

I rely on experience, not scientific dogma.

Maia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:11 am

bobmax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:10 am The magical world belongs to the irrational.
That is, magical are all those facts that are considered not rationally demonstrable.

The development of rational thinking clears the world by dissolving what was previously considered magical.
The rational world expands by reducing the irrational.

To the point that the belief is now widespread that the real is necessarily rational, while what is not rational is not real.

But just when rationality is triumphing... its insuperable limits become evident.

Magical systems, of which there are many, are usually pretty rational.

Magic cannot be rational.

Because rational is what is justified, demonstrated.
While the magic is just what is not proven, it is nevertheless considered true.

Since the rational needs to be based on something other than itself, in the final analysis the magic cannot be eliminated.

bobmax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:36 am

Maia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:11 am

bobmax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:10 am The magical world belongs to the irrational.
That is, magical are all those facts that are considered not rationally demonstrable.

The development of rational thinking clears the world by dissolving what was previously considered magical.
The rational world expands by reducing the irrational.

To the point that the belief is now widespread that the real is necessarily rational, while what is not rational is not real.

But just when rationality is triumphing... its insuperable limits become evident.

Magical systems, of which there are many, are usually pretty rational.

Magic cannot be rational.

Because rational is what is justified, demonstrated.
While the magic is just what is not proven, it is nevertheless considered true.

Since the rational needs to be based on something other than itself, in the final analysis the magic cannot be eliminated.

With respect, it is clear that you know very little about magic.

bobmax wrote:

Magic cannot be rational.

In this case it could be.

All they had to do was dig.

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:47 am bobmax wrote:

Magic cannot be rational.

In this case it could be.

All they had to do was dig.

Even if it wasn't water, something was affecting the rods.

Maia wrote:

With respect, it is clear that you know very little about magic

As a small child I read Alice in Wonderland.