Philosophy Now Forum

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:56 am ... individuals think that they can get away with not taking the jab, since, they reason their personal chance of getting the disease is low ...

I don't want to argue with your arguments, especially since they are so familiar that arguing with them is like arguing whether matter is ethereal or corpuscular.
I just wanted to defend a little the objectivity of my comment by revealing that it was not based on the illusion of safety guaranteed by vaccines, but on personal struggles with infection and, accordingly, personal experience and evaluation of the consequences and their severity. I am not denying the usefulness of vaccines, only their unwise use.
In any case, nobody immunised you against measles and rubella with regularity every few months.
Vaccine technologies are also slightly different, the nice RNA-based ones don't actually find such unanimous support among professionals, it's just that those who had a view that didn't match the official one (e.g. that it's not very appropriate to vaccinate during an epidemic) were strongly advised to shut up.
I wonder if you have heard about the risks of autoimmune side effects from these RNA vaccines, a very unpleasant thing indeed. And yet, without counting the risks, this medical experiment was carried out globally, with the risk that the possible consequences could also be global.

In any case, the truth is not characterised by being concentrated at the extremes; as practice has shown, it prefers to be in the relatively shock-free middle ground.

nemos wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:48 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:56 am ... individuals think that they can get away with not taking the jab, since, they reason their personal chance of getting the disease is low ...

I don't want to argue with your arguments, especially since they are so familiar that arguing with them is like arguing whether matter is ethereal or corpuscular.
I just wanted to defend a little the objectivity of my comment by revealing that it was not based on the illusion of safety guaranteed by vaccines, but on personal struggles with infection and, accordingly, personal experience and evaluation of the consequences and their severity. I am not denying the usefulness of vaccines, only their unwise use.
In any case, nobody immunised you against measles and rubella with regularity every few months.

Immunity lasts. If you have had measels or rubella or the vaccination before, you are protected for life.
What is your point here?

Vaccine technologies are also slightly different, the nice RNA-based ones don't actually find such unanimous support among professionals, it's just that those who had a view that didn't match the official one (e.g. that it's not very appropriate to vaccinate during an epidemic) were strongly advised to shut up.

Evidence?

I wonder if you have heard about the risks of autoimmune side effects from these RNA vaccines, a very unpleasant thing indeed. And yet, without counting the risks, this medical experiment was carried out globally, with the risk that the possible consequences could also be global.

I was not talking at all about the COVID jab.
My third one made me very ill and I suspect that the effects may still be with me.
Annoying, but as a person with multiple morbidities I am still alive and have never had a case of COVID infection.

In any case, the truth is not characterised by being concentrated at the extremes; as practice has shown, it prefers to be in the relatively shock-free middle ground.

Again. Puzzling what point you are trying to make here.

I am going to presume that you are not going to deny that COVID caused around 7 million deaths? And I would ask how many more would have died if there had been no vaccine at all ?

The valid comparison may well be so-called "Spanish Flu" which claimed 500 million and with a world population significantly smaller than our own, then being around the 2 billion mark. With 4 times that number today we could have expected a much larger rate of fatality, all things being equal

As I said, I don't want to argue. I was just sharing my experience, which formed the basis of my convictions, which I am entitled to - especially when it comes to the question of my existence and its quality. I do not have to prove to anyone that I am not a giraffe.
I have contracted that terrible Covid at least 3 times, the third time I am not sure because it was asymptomatic apart from raised antibodies. And I did not see anything in it that could convince me of the adequacy of the madness. But I am not asking anyone not to vaccinate, just don't force it on me.

nemos wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 2:10 pm As I said, I don't want to argue. I was just sharing my experience, which formed the basis of my convictions, which I am entitled to - especially when it comes to the question of my existence and its quality. I do not have to prove to anyone that I am not a giraffe.
I have contracted that terrible Covid at least 3 times, the third time I am not sure because it was asymptomatic apart from raised antibodies. And I did not see anything in it that could convince me of the adequacy of the madness. But I am not asking anyone not to vaccinate, just don't force it on me.

The idea that vaccination is a personal decision is both misguided and immoral. The infectious disease that has killed more humans than any other in the history of the world is smallpox. It no longer exists. A campaign of vaccination wiped it out and there have been no cases in the last 50 years.

Now that many childhood diseases have been practically eliminated through vaccination programs, it may actually be safer not to get vaccinated for chicken pox, polio or measles. Since there are few infections (because of vaccination) children are unlikely to contract the diseases, and the vaccines have rare and minor side effects. Nonetheless, if everyone refused to be vaccinated, the diseases would make a comeback and as recently as 1960 there was one death from measles per 1000 people in the population.

So decisions about vaccination are not "personal". They are matters of public health. Thinking only of oneself is the mark of an immoral jerk.

Being "anti-vax" is not typically classified as a form of suicide. However, refusing vaccinations can significantly increase the risk of contracting and spreading preventable diseases, which can lead to severe health consequences, including death. The decision not to vaccinate can also endanger public health by reducing herd immunity, putting vulnerable populations at risk. While it's not considered suicide in a direct sense, it is a choice that can have serious and potentially fatal implications for both the individual and the community.

It's a form of inevitable consequence when the masses are disempowered, deprived of education, predated by 'influencers' and therefore politicians.

I tried to persuade my dad not to take the shot. But he took it died from the experimental “coronavirus (common cold)” shot that is actually designed to harm genes & has been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier.

It is amazing how stupid so many people have acted - going along with fear mongering & propaganda to STILL take a supposed “vaccine” that was never properly tested & when they already had natural immunity to coronavirus!

Animal trials of this experimental shot showed ALL animals prematurely dying. But the causes & delayed response varied since the shot harmed immune systems. Why did so many who took the shot not get sick or die? Because many got saline - they were the placebo group - not from their choosing. Russian roulette.

Many pharmacies that “mistakenly” gave saline: https://www.theautomaticearth.com/wp-co ... Saline.jpg

Unbelievable ignorance to willingly take & encourage others to take such a dangerous shot. But I suppose the law of survival factors in people’s insane propensity to succumb to harmful herd mentalities.

Perspective wrote: ↑Wed Jul 16, 2025 10:55 pm I tried to persuade my dad not to take the shot. But he took it died from the experimental “coronavirus (common cold)” shot that is actually designed to harm genes & has been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier.

It is amazing how stupid so many people have acted - going along with fear mongering & propaganda to STILL take a supposed “vaccine” that was never properly tested & when they already had natural immunity to coronavirus!

Animal trials of this experimental shot showed ALL animals prematurely dying. But the causes & delayed response varied since the shot harmed immune systems. Why did so many who took the shot not get sick or die? Because many got saline - they were the placebo group - not from their choosing. Russian roulette.

Many pharmacies that “mistakenly” gave saline: https://www.theautomaticearth.com/wp-co ... Saline.jpg

Unbelievable ignorance to willingly take & encourage others to take such a dangerous shot. But I suppose the law of survival factors in people’s insane propensity to succumb to harmful herd mentalities.

Another thicko religious nut American spreading bullshit.

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 17, 2025 12:07 am

Perspective wrote: ↑Wed Jul 16, 2025 10:55 pm Unbelievable ignorance to willingly take & encourage others to take such a dangerous shot. But I suppose the law of survival factors in people’s insane propensity to succumb to harmful herd mentalities.

Another thicko religious nut American spreading bullshit.

Like this guy, you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JyzTAmPXcw

Or like this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaER9tkgdqs

No.

Even if stupid/risky behavior where one knows it is risky results in death, that is not suicide. Suicide requires intent. One's belief in the probability of death resulting from the action/lack of action plays a role. We could discuss that*

Then certainly stupid behavior where one does not know is stupid/risky is not suicide. Anti-vaxers might even believe (incorrectly) that not taking the jab is safer, more prudent, than taking it. They are not intending to take a higher risk of death.

Suicide requires intent.

* Compare "Russian roulette" with a six chamber cylinder, three loaded, with the same "game" with an imaginary 100 chamber cylinder. How about an imaginary 10,000 chamber cylinder. At some point we would have to consider getting out of the bed to be suicide.

Perspective wrote: ↑Wed Jul 16, 2025 10:55 pm I tried to persuade my dad not to take the shot. But he took it died from the experimental “coronavirus (common cold)” shot that is actually designed to harm genes & has been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier.

It is amazing how stupid so many people have acted - going along with fear mongering & propaganda to STILL take a supposed “vaccine” that was never properly tested & when they already had natural immunity to coronavirus!

Animal trials of this experimental shot showed ALL animals prematurely dying. But the causes & delayed response varied since the shot harmed immune systems. Why did so many who took the shot not get sick or die? Because many got saline - they were the placebo group - not from their choosing. Russian roulette.

Many pharmacies that “mistakenly” gave saline: https://www.theautomaticearth.com/wp-co ... Saline.jpg

Unbelievable ignorance to willingly take & encourage others to take such a dangerous shot. But I suppose the law of survival factors in people’s insane propensity to succumb to harmful herd mentalities.

I'm sorry for your loss. Evidence? Otherwise I'd have to have a lobotomy and other major brain damage.

Apparently, working for the CDC may be a form of suicide. Some asshole in Atlanta decided to shoot up a CDC HQ. From what little is known of the assailant, he was an anti-vaxer who was angry over the COVID-19 lockdowns. Oh well, he wins the Darwin award. The shooter ended up getting killed in the process. Of course, he killed a police officer who responded to the emergency in the process. Killing the officer was the only true tragedy here.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 4:56 am Apparently, working for the CDC may be a form of suicide. Some asshole in Atlanta decided to shoot up a CDC HQ. From what little is known of the assailant, he was an anti-vaxer who was angry over the COVID-19 lockdowns. Oh well, he wins the Darwin award. The shooter ended up getting killed in the process. Of course, he killed a police officer who responded to the emergency in the process. Killing the officer was the only true tragedy here.

Should we know what 'CDC' means?

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 7:17 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 4:56 am Apparently, working for the CDC may be a form of suicide. Some asshole in Atlanta decided to shoot up a CDC HQ. From what little is known of the assailant, he was an anti-vaxer who was angry over the COVID-19 lockdowns. Oh well, he wins the Darwin award. The shooter ended up getting killed in the process. Of course, he killed a police officer who responded to the emergency in the process. Killing the officer was the only true tragedy here.

Should we know what 'CDC' means?

He gave enough context for you to quickly find out what it means if you felt like googling it - Atlanta CDC hq shooting.