Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:41 am ...

I just noticed this thread and so am behind. But as a note, CNN this morning (Dec 17, 2021 ~6am CST) I see that this conpiracy of a conspiracy is also being lobbied by women claiming this CRT is being pushed into the school systems everywhere and when challenged by the interviewer of how these women seem to be advocating with the futher claim that they are NOT aligned to a political lobby with what should require a lot of money from some source. They denied it but the interviewer mentioned how unlikely it seems that they could be having such a powerful lobby as merely concerned parents without strong financial backing.

Media requires trying to verify the claims but found it unusual to have this effectively widespread campaign occurring as it is lacking the normal voluntary appeals through prior social media links. It thus has a footprint of suspicion given these apparently 'neutral' non-political advocators were also cleary extreme Right-wing in their behavior and responses.

I'm presently seeking a repeat of this interview later today and will link it here if I find one.

Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:30 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:41 am ...

I just noticed this thread and so am behind. But as a note, CNN this morning (Dec 17, 2021 ~6am CST) I see that this conpiracy of a conspiracy is also being lobbied by women claiming this CRT is being pushed into the school systems everywhere and when challenged by the interviewer of how these women seem to be advocating with the futher claim that they are NOT aligned to a political lobby with what should require a lot of money from some source. They denied it but the interviewer mentioned how unlikely it seems that they could be having such a powerful lobby as merely concerned parents without strong financial backing.

Media requires trying to verify the claims but found it unusual to have this effectively widespread campaign occurring as it is lacking the normal voluntary appeals through prior social media links. It thus has a footprint of suspicion given these apparently 'neutral' non-political advocators were also cleary extreme Right-wing in their behavior and responses.

I'm presently seeking a repeat of this interview later today and will link it here if I find one.

The problem with CRTs is that they need a digital converter, I've never known one to provide anything but reception from an analogue signal. So if the school can't afford modern flat panels and have been given CRTs well ok, give the converters, otherwise I agree with the women.
Shit I picked up a 48" LG flat panel for $100 from Cashconverters to use as a 3rd monitor - and watch the ashes.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:42 pmThe problem with CRTs is that they need a digital converter, I've never known one to provide anything but reception from an analogue signal. So if the school can't afford modern flat panels and have been given CRTs well ok, give the converters, otherwise I agree with the women.
Shit I picked up a 48" LG flat panel for $100 from Cashconverters to use as a 3rd monitor - and watch the ashes.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:42 pm

The problem with CRTs is that they need a digital converter, I've never known one to provide anything but reception from an analogue signal. So if the school can't afford modern flat panels and have been given CRTs well ok, give the converters, otherwise I agree with the women.
Shit I picked up a 48" LG flat panel for $100 from Cashconverters to use as a 3rd monitor - and watch the ashes.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:48 am 'race' is just a designation for a set of phenotypes within a general species type.

Which "species" do the Argentinians, the Ashkenazi and the Australians share?

No, "white" is a colour of pigment, not a "phenotype." And the "species" is called "homo sapiens," which we all share, regardless of pigment.

Skin pigment is a polygenic attribute... which is expressed as a phenotype. Think of the genotype as a set of genes which produce variation in phenotypes based on allele activity and environmental conditioning (mutation).

This is what I interpreted it to be:

One tenet of CRT is that racism and disparate racial outcomes are the result of complex, changing, and often subtle social and institutional dynamics, rather than explicit and intentional prejudices of individuals.

The apparent recent accusations of it being some kind of overt impositions in the schools is misleading. There is no doubt that a lot of it is being politicized by how many are applying special interest in granting leniency to non-whites but we have to note that the present use of it BY those on the Right are tending to counter react by substituting the particular class of theories as justification for their own behavior when much of the initial reasons for the racial injustices are uniquely related to why CRT was put forward.

I agree that there is a tendency towards opposing discrimination but believe that we have to first try expressing how particular biases are due to classification errors that inappropriately assign an economic class overrepresentation of specific races or sexes as proving to be caused uniquely by racists or sexists. The above tenet actually seems to recognize this as indirect and subtle, not necessarily intentional. But the problems occur due to segregation that is caused more by the 'favoring' of ones' own and not the 'disfavoring' of others. The reactive political solutions by many though is to strengthen their advocacy FOR their own exclusively rather than to integrate them when this only amplifies what we were previously doing already that caused the problems in the first place.

The Rightwingers want to segregate all others by removing any social programs and enhancing the power of those who are economically well endowed. This strengthens the dominating races and sexes already stereotyped of them because one defaults favor towards what one is familiar with even without overt exclusion of others. So those on the Left who are unrepresentative on the Right justifiably questions why remove the economical-class social services that are not biased to race or sex other than coincidentally? This leads them to think that they too have to advocate for their relatively larger 'familiar' class identities. No longer are they fighting for the general protections of social services that is traditionally Left, but to the largest pluralit of races or sexes among them not representative of those on the Right.

So the poorer whites who might align with the traditional 'poor' are discriminated against when they try to apply for social services and why they are forced to gravitate to the Right also based on their race or sex. This then concentrates more of the very stereotype of 'whiteness' towards the Right while transfering those who are socially Rightwing of 'nonwhites' but also poor are forced to gravitate to the Left since the anger at 'home' among the conservatives are now beginning to also stop favoring them assuming they are wanting segregation when they do not.

This continues until the concentration of those on the Right ARE 'white' and those on the Left ARE all 'non-white' due to real discrimination that was before unintended! Its feedbacking effects amplify and we all lose while segregation becomes the norm everywhere.

Solution: Right wingers stop segregating people who are poor from the wealthier; Left wingers stop segregating people based upon race and sex among the poor.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:20 pm Skin pigment is a polygenic attribute... which is expressed as a phenotype. Think of the genotype as a set of genes which produce variation in phenotypes based on allele activity and environmental conditioning (mutation).

This is a superficial distinction. We're all of the same species, the same "race." We're all interfertile, regardless of skin colour, and fully genetically compatible with each other, whether black, red, yellow, white or anything in between.

It's absurd to single out one kind of pigmentation -- which occurs in infinite shades, for that matter -- and assign a pack of moral indictments to everybody who has anything close to the same pigmentation, regardless of what they actually ever did, or even what their ancestors did or did not do.

The whole "white" thing is a colossal, prejudicial, racist fraud. And since such frauds have served us all so badly in the past, I suggest we take the Rev. Martin Luther King's advice, and get beyond it. Actual actions, and actual character are good bases for judgment; skin colour is shallow.

Oops wait my bad. Earlier I said 'white race' when I shoulda said white 'people', which led you to believe I think scientific racism is possible, perhaps.

Really I just needed an excuse to post that hilarious satire Zappa's band did live. Didn't mean to play a race card... and I am quite in agreement with you here, sir.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:51 pm I am quite in agreement with you here, sir.

Oh, fair enough, then.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:28 pmThe whole "white" thing is a colossal, prejudicial, racist fraud.

That's an all too familiar racist claim. I'm not calling you a racist, Manny; but that claim you've made is a racist claim.

I suggest we take the Rev. Martin Luther King's advice ...

It wasn't advice. Interpetting it as such is a racist trope. I'm not calling you a racist, Manny; but that trope you've used is a racist trope.

mickthinks wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:53 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:28 pmThe whole "white" thing is a colossal, prejudicial, racist fraud.

That's an all too familiar racist claim. I'm not calling you a racist, Manny; but that claim you've made is a racist claim.

Nope.

To deny that racism is legitimate cannot, by definition, even be a racist claim. Sorry...not buying: too silly for me.

I suggest we take the Rev. Martin Luther King's advice ...
It wasn't advice.

Technically, it was much more that mere "advice". I understated the case. It was his hope, his aspiration, his clarion call to us all, as recorded in his most famous speech, "I Have a Dream."

But you knew that, I'm sure.

So it was, at the very least, "advice."

To deny that racism is legitimate is to assert that racism is not legitimate, or in other words; racism is bad—mkay?

Yeah, that's not racist. But that's also not what you said. And here's the thing: the opposite of "racist" isn't "unracist"; it's "anti-racist", and you can't be anti-racist and be in denial of the fact that there is a problem with white supremacists.

You said the whole "white" thing is a fraud. And you keep saying it, and you quote MLK in support of it. That's racist because it's a denial of the need and even the possibility of fixing racism in your neighbourhood, in your county, in your state, in your nation.

Your stance is enabling racists to continue in their racism, and that's racist.

I'm not saying you are a racist,Manny. That's because I can't prove that you realise what you are doing.


* Edited for clarity

Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:30 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:41 am ...

I just noticed this thread and so am behind. But as a note, CNN this morning (Dec 17, 2021 ~6am CST) I see that this conpiracy of a conspiracy is also being lobbied by women claiming this CRT is being pushed into the school systems everywhere and when challenged by the interviewer of how these women seem to be advocating with the futher claim that they are NOT aligned to a political lobby with what should require a lot of money from some source. They denied it but the interviewer mentioned how unlikely it seems that they could be having such a powerful lobby as merely concerned parents without strong financial backing.

Media requires trying to verify the claims but found it unusual to have this effectively widespread campaign occurring as it is lacking the normal voluntary appeals through prior social media links. It thus has a footprint of suspicion given these apparently 'neutral' non-political advocators were also cleary extreme Right-wing in their behavior and responses.

I'm presently seeking a repeat of this interview later today and will link it here if I find one.

I did some serious research into Critical Race Theory [CRT].
CRT is a serious intellectual and academic subject which has its roots back to Marx and to Kant [he wrote three books on 'critical' i.e. Critiques of Pure Reason, Practical Reason, Judgment].

Obviously CRT as the academic subject is not taught in those schools, rather the exploiters from the left wing had exploited the various elements raised in CRT and implement them in the schools and elsewhere via ideological brainwashing to serve their twisted ideological purposes, e.g. subliminally pushing the ideology that "white is evil."

The roots and essence of Critical Race Theory is being critical, i.e. think critically especially on whatever is inferred from criticisms of any subject.

But these extreme left wingers are not being critical nor practice criticism rationally, they merely exploited whatever from CRT to push their ideological agenda just like the religious and political are exploiting the knowledge of science with pseudo-science.

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:18 am ...you can't be anti-racist and be in denial of the fact of white supremacy.

The opposite is true. The only way you can believe in "White Supremacy" is by being a racist. Ironically, there isn't even a "white race." So it's super dumb, as well as racist.

...you quote MLK in support of it. That's racist...

Oh? So now you accuse MLK of being a racist? Nice.