Philosophy Now Forum

so you lack the interest and are too lazy to listen to 8 hours of Walter Miller's works to disscuss the nature of the character of the old Jew Bin Eliazar?

sad if so. i would welcoem a diisscussion of the character - sicne Miller was an thinker and that character ree[resnetd something worth discussing.

emmanual if you are a Christian with the belive that souls are immortal why do you fixate uppon this small sliver and not the rest of the timelie of the dfead?

and their freewill to be saved for fall fro mgravce from Hell heaven?


because such isue are not cover in your book - a book that is about the 0.0000000000001 timemline of the immoral soul?

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:02 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:38 am Of course, nobody appointed us as our own judge.

BUT I DID that - as my inner voice from a kid - I was my own state judry and executioner!

Well, the wrongs that we do are not primarily against ourselves...they're against others, and ultimately, against God.

In what court is the criminal also granted to serve as judge? And what would happen if that were done?

That's the point.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:38 am I don't give 2 shit what that asshole Saul said in Romans.

Ad hominem.

In any case, I'm not trying to make you like it; I'm just giving you the respect of telling you what's true. What you do with it...that's up to you.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:38 am

if in the next life - like in your Hell - I am "still alvie" - i will convert to your Faith

Hebrews 9:27 says," it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment" That's what God tells us about that. The chance to decide has already been given. There's no infinite license on disbelief.

Your Hebrews is just saying we all die eventually

You missed the last half of the verse, I guess.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:38 am Just so, God wants us to choose union and friendship with Him. We need an opportunity to choose that, and we need an alternative; otherwise, it was never a choice at all. But when we're in, we're in. And if you're out...well, then that decision too is permanent. But it was freely chosen, too.

I'll choose your God after my dath and from Hell

Apparently not.

seeds wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 5:32 pm I suggest that if anyone is curious as to what the fundamental makeup of God might be, then all you have to do is look within yourself, for you are carrying around a model of it right within your own skull.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 5:13 pm Agreed.

And... I think it makes sense that any creative force/energy is manifested through ALL (humans and everything else). The idea of any separation between God and humans (or between God and anything) seems based on very simple human models of division and hierarchies.

Why would any vastly creative force be modeled or limited as such?...

Let me try to clarify something.

Looking once again at my illustration,...



...I suggest that every speck of physical matter throughout the entire universe is a part of the unified essence of God's personal being and is indeed inseparable from God (and that includes our bodies and brains).

And that would be in the exact same way that every speck of the substance that forms our thoughts and dreams...

(i.e., that "mental imaging energy" I keep talking about)

...is a part of the unified essence of our own personal being.

And the point is that even though our physical bodies and brains are an inseparable feature of God's personal essence, it doesn't mean that our minds and souls are inseparable from God.

Again, I'm obviously just speculating about these things, but when I speak of the "soul" I am talking about a completely different kind of beast here. And in the case of the human soul, it is a beast that is capable of exiting the universe by means of a second and final birth that will leave this...



...behind.

Why?

Because, relative to the soul, that gnarled and leathery glob of discarded human flesh is the metaphorical equivalent of a placental-like "afterbirth" that, unlike the soul, is made of a substance that literally has no reality outside of the subjective arena of God's mind (as is described in the following illustration)...



(For a clearer view of the dialogue, click on the following link and expand the image: http://theultimateseeds.com/Images/14%2 ... %20217.jpg)

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 5:13 pm ...I think the stories that suggest union with God will happen after death are because humans don't realize/accept the creative force that is PRESENT!

I realize that we are probably viewing these concepts from slightly different perspectives, but you are absolutely correct in pointing out the fact that most humans just don't realize the creative force that is already present all around them.

And I say that because how much more "present" can God be relative to us humans than to have our souls/minds literally swaddled (wrapped/enveloped) in the living fabric of God's "spirit body," so to speak, as we momentarily exist as fetuses suspended within her cosmic womb?

Ironically, what that suggests is that at the moment of death, instead of a greater union with God, we will actually be separating from God in the same way that we separated from our mother at our initial birth.

Indeed, I suggest that our souls will separate from this universe through what I playfully call God's vaginal birth canal...

(or, in other words, that ever-popular "tunnel" that leads to the light of true reality)

...where God and our ultimate form and purpose will finally be revealed to us.

(Btw, is it okay to talk about God's "tunnel" in mixed company? )
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seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:48 am...

I think I am hearing and seeing what you're describing. It is a very unique and creative viewpoint with reasonable symbology. Where/how did you come up with it?

When I had my near-death experience, I was "floating" in awareness (there was nothing visual), without a body. There was no need, desire, fear... just waiting to see if the humans saved the body for me to return... and I had no preference either way. I interpreted that as not being identified with a body or anything else... rather, being part of oneness. Identity has also fallen away during other wakeful meditation experiences I've had, so I'm interested in the attunement of spirit/energy during this physical Earth journey, and the implications of that.

Considering the "birthing process" you suggest, do you imagine it as the time that the quality of energies are being formed, and is it a singular birth event for each one... or might some be aborted and need to cook some more?

Sorry, I'm feeling distracted at the moment... like I want to take a break from this forum again.

It can be disheartening that the drunks, half-wits, and bloated egos who use this forum to continually self-glorify their density, aren't really here to question and explore ideas. They are masturbating all over themselves and each other, and yet they accuse a woman of performing sexual acts (as Atto did to me, and Henry appeared to agree by showing the thumb he likes to sit on) simply because she is considering more ideas and demonstrating her freedom of thinking. It's as if they can't fathom such things... so they condemn it with their archaic male behavior and shriveled-up little brains. When the fuck are they going to evolve? It's not that hard to do!

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 5:51 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:48 am...

I think I am hearing and seeing what you're describing. It is a very unique and creative viewpoint with reasonable symbology. Where/how did you come up with it?

When I had my near-death experience, I was "floating" in awareness (there was nothing visual), without a body. There was no need, desire, fear... just waiting to see if the humans saved the body for me to return... and I had no preference either way. I interpreted that as not being identified with a body or anything else... rather, being part of oneness. Identity has also fallen away during other wakeful meditation experiences I've had, so I'm interested in the attunement of spirit/energy during this physical Earth journey, and the implications of that.

Considering the "birthing process" you suggest, do you imagine it as the time that the quality of energies are being formed, and is it a singular birth event for each one... or might some be aborted and need to cook some more?

Sorry, I'm feeling distracted at the moment... like I want to take a break from this forum again.

It can be disheartening that the drunks, half-wits, and bloated egos who use this forum to continually self-glorify their density, aren't really here to question and explore ideas. They are masturbating all over themselves and each other, and yet they accuse a woman of performing sexual acts (as Atto did to me, and *Henry appeared to agree by showing the thumb he likes to sit on) simply because she is considering more ideas and demonstrating her freedom of thinking. It's as if they can't fathom such things... so they condemn it with their archaic male behavior and shriveled-up little brains. When the fuck are they going to evolve? It's not that hard to do!

*Good lord, but you're full of yourself.

I posted this...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 6:54 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 5:18 pm Don't bother getting a room. Just inter_face.

...whch had nuthin' to do with you specifically and certainly wasn't an approval of the vulgarity directed at you later in the thread.

You owe me an apology.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:03 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:03 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 5:18 pm Don't bother getting a room. Just inter_face.

...whch had nuthin' to do with you specifically and certainly wasn't an approval of the vulgarity directed at you later in the thread.

You owe me an apology.

Oh it wasn't directed at me? Then, yes, I am sorry. I guess I misunderstood. What did it mean, Henry?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 5:51 pm I think I am hearing and seeing what you're describing. It is a very unique and creative viewpoint with reasonable symbology. Where/how did you come up with it?

The "how and where" of it started with a series of epiphanies that began back in 1969 and culminated in one spectacular epiphany in the summer of 1970.

In 1969, I was a 19 year old sophomore at Eastern Michigan University and I had just won two (NAIA) national championships in my sport (springboard diving) a month or so prior to my first epiphany, so I was in peak physical condition....

Unfortunately, that's about as far as I am willing to go with the story on this forum, and that's because I'm inclined to heed the warning against "casting one's pearls" in front of the wrong crowd.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 5:51 pm When I had my near-death experience, I was "floating" in awareness (there was nothing visual), without a body. There was no need, desire, fear... just waiting to see if the humans saved the body for me to return... and I had no preference either way. I interpreted that as not being identified with a body or anything else... rather, being part of oneness. Identity has also fallen away during other wakeful meditation experiences I've had, so I'm interested in the attunement of spirit/energy during this physical Earth journey, and the implications of that.

That's very interesting, Lacewing, I was not aware of the fact that you had a "near-death experience."

If it's not too private and personal, perhaps you could share the circumstances of how you almost died and how the experience changed you?

With that being said, I'm having a difficult time trying to understand what you mean by your "identity falling away" while still using the pronouns "I" and "me" to describe the process?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 5:51 pm Considering the "birthing process" you suggest, do you imagine it as the time that the quality of energies are being formed, and is it a singular birth event for each one... or might some be aborted and need to cook some more?

No, no more "cooking" is necessary.

Again, it should be needless to say that I could be totally wrong about all of this, but I believe that if you are a human, then your ultimate form and destiny (as an "embryo" or "seed" of God) is a done deal, and will be fully realized after your second and final birth into true reality.

As I tried to demonstrate in yet another of my fanciful illustrations...



(Click on the following link to see a series of illustrations tied to the one above: http://theultimateseeds.com/murmurings.htm)

The captions read as follows:

"...let us make man in our image..."

"...one of us..."

"...The occupants of the realm on the other side of this barrier are as profoundly "more awake" relative to adult humans on earth, as adult humans on earth are "more awake" relative to a fetus in the human womb..."

And the point is that once everyone is born into their true and eternal form in true reality, we will be so dramatically changed from what we are now that we will look back at our momentary stay within the universe in the same way that we look back at our momentary stay within our mother's womb.

In other words, it will be something that was necessary to awaken us into life, but is no longer of any concern to us with respect to our new and eternal state of being...

...(which, btw, will not only be genderless, but absolutely equal and perfect for everyone).

(Continued in next post)
_______

_______

(Continued from prior post)

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 5:51 pm Sorry, I'm feeling distracted at the moment... like I want to take a break from this forum again.

It can be disheartening that the drunks, half-wits, and bloated egos who use this forum to continually self-glorify their density, aren't really here to question and explore ideas.

Yes, and I have previously suggested that what you just described is one of the fundamental reasons why this forum has such a low membership. Especially when considering the fact that it is connected to an internationally distributed philosophy magazine.
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Lacewing wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 10:55 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:03 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:03 pm

...whch had nuthin' to do with you specifically and certainly wasn't an approval of the vulgarity directed at you later in the thread.

You owe me an apology.

Oh it wasn't directed at me? Then, yes, I am sorry. I guess I misunderstood. What did it mean, Henry?

Atto's line was funny...that's it, that's all.

But even if it were a jab, it came before Atto's vulgarity to you.

No matter how you cut it, Lace, you were wrong; you insulted me for no reason (more accurately, the wrong reason).

Since we entered a truce, I've been goin' out of my way to not attack you (though, believe me, I've had cause: I haven't been blind to your small snide-isms, lil jabs, that were I to rightfully reciprocate against, would earn me condemnation).

I'm playin' nice, intend to continue to play nice.

Interestin' how the rigid, narrow-minded lunkhead, the caveman, does a better job of it than the fluid, evolved, open-minded angel.

Lacewing I am seriously sorry for offending you (and seeds).

Further to this Lacewing - please don't leave because I have often been an arsehole. I do find the whole 'delusion' thing directed at me rather confronting, but that is no excuse for my behaviour.

In an attempt to get back on track of "Understanding the religious mindset"

This is an interview - the dude in the top left is Shaun Attwood - interviewer
- the dude in top right is someone that has been studying 'religious' cults for some time
- the dude in the bottom - grew up in Scientology since the age of 6.



Might be worth watching - since the topic at hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3WnU48tK_4

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 pm that's about as far as I am willing to go with the story on this forum, and that's because I'm inclined to heed the warning against "casting one's pearls" in front of the wrong crowd.

Understood.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 pm If it's not too private and personal, perhaps you could share the circumstances of how you almost died and how the experience changed you?

I was dying slowly... bleeding to death from an ectopic pregnancy... over the course of 12 hours or so, until help got to me. My veins had collapsed, and I was fairly mentally detached from my body... waiting to see if "the humans saved the body". What I experienced in that state is something I would never forget. The sense of everything being fine. The sense of NOT being associated with all the human traits/thoughts.

More recent experiences of wakeful meditation (eyes open, walking around, mind truly free of chatter), during which I suddenly/unexpectedly have felt aware of the vast perfection of all. Like stepping through a veil and being immersed in it. It was as if that's WHAT WAS THERE and could be seen/felt in the absence of mental chatter. Other times during this kind of wakeful meditation, I've received instant answers to problems. It has been life-changing to have these experiences. It has demonstrated to me some potential beyond the mental noise on the human level: all those human stories that define "reality" while being oblivious to what else there is.

The sense I got is that working with limited potential is fine. It's very interesting and beneficial, however, to be aware/receptive of more. The results of doing have greatly benefited my life and experience.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 pmWith that being said, I'm having a difficult time trying to understand what you mean by your "identity falling away" while still using the pronouns "I" and "me" to describe the process?

I wondered if you would comment on that. It's like being an actor on a stage; in-character for this play. Considering it as that is another potential to experience and play with. Such an "identity" is little more than that, it seems to me. Using such pronouns is part of the script... and it's the only way I currently know of to communicate on this stage. Telepathy would be nice! Then we might feel together: "Ahhh..." and just smile... and maybe start laughing. The experiences I've described here have changed how I view this "me" and this life/experience. I'm at peace with less identity and greater potential.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 pm
The occupants of the realm on the other side of this barrier are as profoundly "more awake" relative to adult humans on earth, as adult humans on earth are "more awake" relative to a fetus in the human womb..." /...And the point is that once everyone is born into their true and eternal form in true reality, we will be so dramatically changed from what we are now that we will look back at our momentary stay within the universe in the same way that we look back at our momentary stay within our mother's womb.

That sounds wonderful. Vast potential is the only thing that makes sense to me. My experiences have already shown me significantly more than the theist stories and claims I was raised on, which are oddly still circulated. I am hoping to see a greater awakening for humankind during my lifetime.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 pm In other words, it will be something that was necessary to awaken us into life, but is no longer of any concern to us with respect to our new and eternal state of being...

Sounds perfect!

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 am you insulted me for no reason (more accurately, the wrong reason)

I already apologized, although I'm not sure it was even deserved. And to be fair, you've said more than enough to elicit more insults than I can ever give you.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 am Since we entered a truce, I've been goin' out of my way to not attack you

Sorry it's been so hard for you...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 am(though, believe me, I've had cause: I haven't been blind to your small snide-isms, lil jabs, that were I to rightfully reciprocate against, would earn me condemnation).

What do you want, Henry?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 am I'm playin' nice, intend to continue to play nice.

Good. I've appreciated it. We'll both do our best... whatever that is.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 am Interestin' how the rigid, narrow-minded lunkhead, the caveman, does a better job of it than the fluid, evolved, open-minded angel.

You're funny!