Philosophy Now Forum

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:17 pm qi.

'' The life force [prana] and the mind are operating [of their own accord], but the mind will tempt you to believe that it is "you"...
The apparatus [mind, body] which is functioning has come upon your original essence, but you are not that apparatus.''

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:41 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:17 pm DAM, consider the relationship between yin, yang, and qi. Is yin a reality or is it just the results of yang's imagination?

You are beyond I am and I am not. Descriptions of yin and yang is pure dreamscape. The dream is composed of millions of opposites. (oppositions)

In the dream state, aka the opposition state. You know this because you know that. Or, this is because that is. In reality there is no comparison to reality, there's only ISness..there's no well it's just like this or that. Is is simply IS in every moment.

Reality is only what it is, else it would be what it isn't. Reality doesn't make that comparison...imho

But believe what you want Nick, it's your canvas you are writing on. If your point of view is culturally bound and is filtered only through that boundary then so be it, there is nothing can be done about that unless you become as a blank slate but this time you are holding the pen.

PS, drink your own coolade..at least you'll know for sure what's in it.

Curious how the nature of three as known in the three Gunas, Yin yang and qi, and the Holy Trinity is just a dream. The universal interaction of the essential three forces known all round the world is just a dream. As I've said, I appreciate learning from those who know at least intellectually the essential relationship between God as ONE and God as three and how they are present simultaneously. The problem is finding them.

DAM

But believe what you want Nick, it's your canvas you are writing on. If your point of view is culturally bound and is filtered only through that boundary then so be it, there is nothing can be done about that unless you become as a blank slate but this time you are holding the pen.

My primary interest is in the logical reconciliation between science and religion. I cannot see how anyone who values scientific truth can build on your views so as to appeal to the scientific mind. I've found that the laws which sustain our horizontal existence in time are the same as the laws governing the vertical reality of relative states of being. In this way a scientist can observe how the objective quality of a moment is determined logically by the scale of being initiating with the Absolute.

In the future the survival of humanity my well depend upon how many come to verify the reality of this relationship between the horizontal and the vertical within themselves so as to bring human meaning to the results of science. If there is no basis for science to become open to your views they cannot serve to heal the artificial division between science and religion.

I understand what you are saying Nick.
But the human being will awaken only when life evolves it to happen,when it is meant to happen and not one second before.
For many people part of the path that is the awakening process will involve solitude and aloneness, sometimes for years at a time.
I personally can't see anyone submitting to that action any time soon, can you? not with all this constant demand for more adavanced technology that serves only to distract oneself from it's true nature.

It seems we are living in the last days like the ancients predicted thousands of years ago. The world is in an obvious mess, and hardly any one in their sane mind watches the news channels on tv any more.

I've put my house in order, and being true to myself. The rest of the world's affairs are in the lap of the Gods. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The internet is for everyone, it's everyone and any one's ultimate guru ..so now we can all awaken.
It's not like people haven't been given the chance to awaken, it's up for grabs for everyone thanks to the WWW. But what's more important, artificial technology or organic self-realisation.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:51 pm
If the thing "dontaskme" KNOWS that they can not be known because they are already being known by 'not-a-thing', then that sounds like you have defeated your own logic and conclusion, to me.

Not really. A ''thing'' can only be known in relation to it's opposite.

Where did this BELIEF come from?

Why can a 'thing' only be known in relation to its opposite?

What evidence is there for this claim?

If a 'thing' can be known in relation to another 'thing', then that 'thing' is NOT the opposite of the "other" 'thing'. They are obviously BOTH 'things'. Therefore, a 'thing' can be known in relation to a 'thing', which is obviously NOT thee opposite.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmDAM is known as a conceptual label,

"dontaskme", to me, is just a name, placed onto the 'thing', of which is KNOWN to 'me' and 'I'.

What that 'thing' IS is NOT a conceptual label, nor even just a label. What that 'thing' is, which is sometimes known as "dontaskme" is already KNOWN, by another 'thing'. Therefore, a 'thing' is KNOWN by a 'thing', which is the same and NOT the opposite.

To me, a 'thing' can not be known by any other 'thing' than a 'thing'. Obviously a 'thing' can not be known by 'not a thing' because there is NO such 'thing' as 'not a thing', which is REALLY just 'no thing' or 'nothing' at all, anyway.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmthe label doesn't know anything,

I agree.

And I do NOT know of any one who would think a 'label' knows any thing.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmno more than a label on the outside of a tomato soup tin knows there is tomato soup inside the tin.

Still agree.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmDAM is a 'thought' inside of conscious knowing, the opposite of unconscious not-knowing...

But the three letters D,A, and M. is a capitalized label for a body of held up water.

To me, "donaskme" is one label placed onto the person, which is just the non visible 'thoughts' (and emotions), within a visible physical human body.

These thoughts, some times known as "dontaskme" BELIEVE that a 'thing' can ONLY be known by its opposite.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmDam is known by consciousness itself when the image formed inside the mind...aka the 'thought'

For "others" to understand this better then those thoughts known as "dontaskme" would have to explain what 'Consciousness', Itself, IS, and what the 'Mind', Its Self, IS, and just HOW images form inside this Mind, as 'thought'.

There is a very simple and extremely explanation, by the way. But 'things' would NEED to be LOOKED AT from another perspective FIRST.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pm DAM wasn't D inside the womb. Inside the womb, D's real identity was just the pure consciousness with no image of itself. It is only when the thinking ''I am D'' totally stops that the Truth of who you really are exists which is consciousness.

Why would 'I' have to totally stop thinking the phrase, "I am D", to then realize and know the Truth of who 'I' really are, which is consciousness.

I have NEVER even EVER thought, "I am D".

So, I NEVER even totally started let alone totally stopped thinking that. But 'I' arrived at the (same?) Truth as 'I' am Consciousness, Its Self.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmAll there is, is consciousness.

If this were true, then how do 'you', the one existing withing a physical body, explain away ALL of the physical things in the Universe, and which the Universe is actually comprised of?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmAnd the mind of 'thought' is merely a reflection of that consciousness.

Before you stated that, "image is formed inside the mind", but now you use the words, "the mind of 'thought' ".

What is the 'mind of 'thought' ' exactly?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmOne aka consciousness can know oneself only with one's own eye of knowledge, and not with somebody else's.

To me, If "all there is is consciousness", then there could not and thus would NOT be a "some body else's", obviously.

To me, 'Consciousness' IS just thee Observer and Seer of ALL-THERE-IS, or in other words 'Consciousness' is just the One non-dual Knower of ALL 'things'.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pmDoes she who is DAM require the help of a mirror to know that she is DAM?

DAM doesn't know, Dam is known as knowledge in-forms itself.

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This appears to complex the simple and make hard the easy.

EVERY thing is really very simple and easy to UNDERSTAND, so WHY 'try' and complicate and make hard what is essential ALREADY KNOWN, by an already ALL Knowing 'Thing', I might add.

Age wrote:
To me Consciousness IS just thee Observer and Seer of ALL THERE IS or in other words Consciousness is just the One non dual Knower of ALL things

To me Existence is non dual as everything is connected to everything else in one seamless connection
I do not see it as being conscious as such but there are minds that exist within it which are conscious
The important thing however is that it is eternal and absolute because it is literally ALL THAT EXISTS

Do you wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself. –Abba Evagrius the Monk

Does anyone know why he would believe this? What is the idea behind it?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:52 am

Do you wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself. –Abba Evagrius the Monk

Does anyone know why he would believe this?

Because Thy Self is God.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:52 amWhat is the idea behind it?

The idea behind this is because when 'you' are able to answer the question, Who am 'I' properly and correctly, then the True Self is known and understood. Thy True Self IS God.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:52 am

Do you wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself. –Abba Evagrius the Monk

Does anyone know why he would believe this? What is the idea behind it?

Because the monk is the inner guru, (aka the MIND) the inner guru is YOU, the very silent voice within sentient awareness that already knows there is only God.
And that every voice is the voice of God the silent one vocalised as and through the word of God via the sound of silence heard as words.
The internet is God's two way mirror. What is SEEN to be ''out-there'' is God's blindeye staring back at himself.

As depicted in this quote here > ''When you stare into the Abyss, the Abyss stares back into you'' < That's what God IS

The human ego is also God, but this ego part of God want's to be the controller, it wants to separate and feel like it has a special role in life. And God in his unlimted already fulfilled being knows that to experience his infinite ways of being he had to limit himself to an ego.
So in his unconditional all allowing freedom to be he allows his ego (his separate self) the centre stage so it can run the show. He does this unconditionally in his love for living and experiencing already knowing full well that his ego self will never find fulfillment in separation, eventually surrendering and renouncing all false control back to himself. God already knows nothing ever happens or harms God in any way shape or form. He knows nothing can touch God because God is infinitely everything for eternity.

Perhaps Nick..the separation is what you call the fall?

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Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:52 am

Do you wish to know God? Learn first to know yourself. –Abba Evagrius the Monk

Does anyone know why he would believe this? What is the idea behind it?

Another look at this Knowing God Awareness...goes something like >

''The world is given to me only once, not one existing and one perceived. Subject and object are only one. The barrier between them cannot be said to have broken down as a result of recent experience in the physical sciences, for this barrier does not exist.'' ~Erwin Schrodinger

Also, ''All of your schemes and all of your dreams doesn't mean shit to a tree.'' Nature, does indeed, bat last.


What ever happens is all but a dream within a dream within a dream add infinitum, there is no you to save you, you are always saved, watch this space, it's not for you to know, you'll only know when you know as and when that knowing arises now. Now is all there is, all future and past is NOW.

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A Dream Within a Dream
BY EDGAR ALLAN POE

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow —
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand —
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep — while I weep!
O God! Can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:19 pm

Age wrote:
To me Consciousness IS just thee Observer and Seer of ALL THERE IS or in other words Consciousness is just the One non dual Knower of ALL things

To me Existence is non dual as everything is connected to everything else in one seamless connection
I do not see it as being conscious as such but there are minds that exist within it which are conscious
The important thing however is that it is eternal and absolute because it is literally ALL THAT EXISTS

I also do not see Existence as being conscious.

I, however, observe a Consciousness in Existence, just like there are human beings existing, or in Existence. These existing human beings are also partly conscious and also partly self-conscious or partly aware of the Existence that they are in and they are partly aware of who they. But they are NOT fully aware nor fully conscious, like Consciousness, Itself IS.

Age

The idea behind this is because when 'you' are able to answer the question, Who am 'I' properly and correctly, then the True Self is known and understood. Thy True Self IS God.

Satan tried this approach and found his true self wasn't God. IMO this idea that "I am God" is without the sense of scale and relativity necessary for understanding what we ARE.

To be in the image of God isn't God. To believe so destroys the image and its conscious potential.

Age

The idea behind this is because when 'you' are able to answer the question, Who am 'I' properly and correctly, then the True Self is known and understood. Thy True Self IS God.

We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him. Simone Weil

Age asserts: I am or my true self is God. Simone asserts that the only thing we can know is that God is what we are not. IYO who do you believe is right?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:33 am Age

The idea behind this is because when 'you' are able to answer the question, Who am 'I' properly and correctly, then the True Self is known and understood. Thy True Self IS God.

We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him. Simone Weil

Age asserts: I am or my true self is God. Simone asserts that the only thing we can know is that God is what we are not. IYO who do you believe is right?

I know this was meant for Age.

But I'm going to say they are both right from the unique perspective of their own God understanding.