Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:11 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:27 am
What I wrote was not meant to be something you had to, "take," or endure.

Thanks, I can take that it was not meant to be something I had to take.

No matter how much we disagree, I always enjoy someone who is reasonable in their discourse, as you are.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:31 am Jesus didn't charge people money for his teachings.

Oh, I don't know about that. Life is everything, thus money is a subset of life, and life is the price to find life.

He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 10:39 King James Version (KJV)

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:01 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:31 am Jesus didn't charge people money for his teachings.

Oh, I don't know about that. Life is everything, thus money is a subset of life, and life is the price to find life.

He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 10:39 King James Version (KJV)

I like that..very good.

For my Love there is no charge.

When you win you lose = no charge..... and when you lose you win = no charge.

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You forgot the saké.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 pm Arising_uk...you ask what’s conceptualising it?

The answer is awareness is..while at the same time is not a concept, but knows each and every concept as and when it is born via the mental construction...where the unknown becomes known to itself ..in this conception...as it conceives itself to be....see here>

“Consciousness does not shine by itself. It shines by a light beyond it. The mind must learn that beyond the moving mind there is a background of awareness which does not change. The mind must come to know the true self and respect it and cease covering it up, like the moon which obscures the sun during a solar eclipse.”

~Sri Nisargadatta

See the next post....

“Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.”

Arising_uk...see how awareness who you are never happened..and that all happenings are nought but a dream you are dreaming.

“Since it is awareness that makes consciousness possible, there is awareness in every state of consciousness. Therefore the very consciousness of being conscious is already a movement in awareness. Interest in your stream of consciousness takes you to awareness. It is not a new state. It is at once recognised as the original, basic existence, which is life itself, and also love and joy.”

None of the above needs your 'Awareness' or 'One' or 'God' nor posits it and all the above can be understood as the experience of the happening that occurs when one turns off the internal voice, internal imagery and minimises internal and external stimuli. As what you get is a basic state of a body with senses, memory and language in an external world.

There is a difference between a man and and a woman. There are differences in physical characteristics, There are behavioral differences and there are differences in smell, look and function.

But there is also a difference that cannot be defined.

The difference is a spiritual difference that transcends being and exists beyond the senses.

I cannot explain it but I know it exists.

Do you?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:22 pm
None of the above needs your 'Awareness' or 'One' or 'God' nor posits it and all the above can be understood as the experience of the happening that occurs when one turns off the internal voice, internal imagery and minimises internal and external stimuli. As what you get is a basic state of a body with senses, memory and language in an external world.

It's not Y(our Awareness . . Any apparent ownership of Awareness is a mentation - it's knowledge already occuring within Unborn Non-Identity Unknown Awareness. You already ARE Awareness...Awareness doesn't belong to a Your or an Our....Awareness is already this immediate one without a second, it has no ownership or copyright...it's totally free and boundless always here now nowhere, never not here.
You are mistaking Awareness for the mind ..the mind is not Awareness but is an aspect of Awareness. There is an Awareness of mental activity, but there is no mental activity being aware of Awareness...simply because the mind does not exist apart from the ONE AWARENESS aware of itself as and through the prism of the mind ..the mind being a known concept of Awareness...the conception of SELF....but not known by the known concept itself because concepts are fictions...in fact the concept 'mind' has no self, it's a fictional story maker, it's an imaginary creator of fictional things... The only SELF here is Awareness aware of fictional things...Awareness doesn't belong to a ''someone'' which is a fictional thing..

Awareness is always this immediate eternal infinite everything and nothing...in which the story of otherness, namely itself, the 'fictional thing' arises and falls within it...known and experienced by it only.

A_UK ..the musings in your reply, is just a descriptive musing - a mental narrative within Awareness you already ARE, so of course Awareness is needed. A Conscious Awareness aka a (mentation) needs Awareness to know and experience itself as a mirror image of itself....... but Awareness does not need another agent of knowing, it's fictional mirror image to BE...because the mirror exists whether it reflects itself or not...The mirror/aka Awareness is the only knower/knowing there is always one with itself...


NOT looking or doing Awareness is empty of Self and needs to be in order to reflect ONE...so what appears to be the external world of other things aka (mentation as reflected by Awareness in the form of it's mirror image, the fictional agent, it's own imagined idea of itself...is no thing but the seen face of the unseen faceless Awareness...as seer is inseparable from the seen. There is no other Awareness here, it's all one.

To turn off - to understand something - to know something - to utter something about that knowing - to conceptualise that experience of knowing is mentation...which all needs Awareness.

All the above knowledge mentioned requires a knower...which is always and ever ONE WITH ITSELF.

The point of this whole thread topic is there is NO ONE mentating...mental activity is a fictional experience running through life and conceptually known by Awareness only...the only knowing there is.

Awareness is ON period!! ...as self evident it's a direct experience....there is no thing that can switch it ON to Off...because even when Awareness is apparently OFF it's actually ON...and vice versa...there is no middle man acting as the switcheroo..switching it on and off except an imagined one... if there is a middle man...then who is that A_UK?
Who is that?

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jayjacobus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:47 am There is a difference between a man and and a woman. There are differences in physical characteristics, There are behavioral differences and there are differences in smell, look and function.

Yes there are..conceptually speaking in this conception..in this idolised descriptive mentation as imaged recoginsed, remembered and known by the same awareness in each of us...As awareness we know nothing of ourself...without another self informing us of what we are and know... so that we one become two, aka the uninformed informed...we the uninformed are now in the know..the realm of knowledge...Notice the other self is nothing but our own self refecting back at us as knowledge itself..the other self is the image of our imageless self...a shift from not-knowing to known...the other self is our mirror...but the shift from one to two was an illusion because here at all times is only and ever not-knowing knowing one with itself..as knowledge is only a reflection of the one... It takes only one to reflect, although reflections are many, but the many reflections are only and ever sourced from the one reflector reflecting itself in myriad of different forms, ultimately all reflections, aka others, are sourced from the same essence...aka pure empty awareness. Put another way...playdough is still always playdough no matter how many different forms it takes on.
Every piece of matter is made out of Awareness. Awareness does not come from matter. Matter and Awareness are the same no thing appearing as different things.

jayjacobus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:47 amBut there is also a difference that cannot be defined.

The difference is a spiritual difference that transcends being and exists beyond the senses.

I cannot explain it but I know it exists.

Do you?

I agree, you know it, but you cannot explain it because that would be like trying to explain the non-conceptual by filling it up with concepts.

Knowing is silent, it is silent knowing, and listening is knowing this silent knowing...listening as in many authors appear but there is only one silent reader reading the stories no one ever wrote...in writing ..as recording this live event...you are back in the realm of fictional concepts. The imagined realm of the ghostwriter - the realm of the unwritten story.

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This cannot be explained, words can only point to it, they can point to the back and beyond of what's being pointed to...to the backlight of all seen things...but that will require a shift away from the attention on the word (the seen things) to what the word is pointing to ( the unseen seer, the invisible animator always present) ...in the same context an arrow can point everywhere except to itself.

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