Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
I was going along with Ramu's sort of 'direct experience' which I believe he meant 'spiritual experiences'.
No, you were projecting your own ideas about 'direct experience' onto ramu as if they belonged to ramu. You cannot know what other peoples experiences are, you have to taste it for yourself, no one can tell you what the taste of an orange is like, you have to experience it for yourself, albeit illusory.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 amGenerally the common experiences is via ordinary waking states of consciousness which is still experienced via an active [not dead] human brain.
That's just a generalised common myth... a lie.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 amIn the case of non-duality, that is an altered state of consciousness which is different from ordinary waking state of consciousness.
No it is not, why don't you listen, you are like a worn out record. There is no one to have an altered state of consciousness. There is only consciousness experiencing different states of expression.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 amNevertheless it is still directly experienced via an active human brain if there is an detachment of the ordinary ego [named personality].
If the brain and person is dead, there is nothing else to it.
On the contrary, you have been claiming there is still that ONE.
People don't die. A person is an idea, the idea of the person dies, the idea ceases to be online. Consciousness alternates between being online or offline, but it's never dead, because it has never been born. The dead do not come online, going offline does not mean death., if consciousness was dead, it wouldn't be able to come back online. It's the neutral state that is neither conscious nor unconcious, consciousness has no concept of itself, and yet all concepts are known only to consciousness, as a fictional story.
Anyone who endorses spiritual practice is a charlatan. You cannot practice being, you are being. You are stuck in the deluded world of belief systems.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 amYou are talking nonsense.
In general, how can a person cultivates spirituality if that person do not do the necessary exercises to rewire the brain to increase one's Spiritual Quotient?
It doesn't work in the way you think it does, a person doesn't do anything, there is no such thing as a person, it's a concept known by consciousness. No person has ever been seen, there is only consciousness knowing itself. Awakening is what life itself evolves to happen when its supposed to happen, everything happens spontaneously, no practice is involved in what happens quite naturally and spontanously. No force on earth will make whats not meant to happen happen, and that is basically what you are implying when you state that to ''wake-up'' requires practice. This is the work of a charlatan, a fraud. Its absolute nonsense, that is believed to be real..
Everything that happens in life is a spontaneous arising within consciousness itself. No thing is making that happen. Rewiring the brain is a function of consciousness, nothing more.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am
Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Seriously, so knowledge is owned by a person is it, a person that only exists as illusory knowledge.
No one experiences anything, there is only ''experience'' consciousness is experiencing.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 amYou are talking nonsense again.
Note the general understanding of 'experience'';
Experience is the knowledge or mastery of an event or subject gained through involvement in or exposure to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience
Here are some points which I have been presenting for you to note.
Mystics can describe their visions as "spiritual experiences".
1. However, psychology and neuropsychology[7] may explain the same experiences in terms of altered states of consciousness, which may come about accidentally through (for example) very high fever, infections such as meningitis, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), psychosis, temporal-lobe epilepsy, or a traumatic accident.
2. People can likewise achieve such experiences more deliberately through recognized mystical practices such as sensory deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or mystical disciplines such as mantra meditation, yoga, Sufism, dream yoga, or surat shabda yoga.
3. Some practices encourage spiritual experiences through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, but more commonly with entheogenic plants and substances such as cannabis, salvia divinorum, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, DXM, ayahuasca, or datura.
4. Another way to induce spiritual experience through an altered state of consciousness involves psychoacoustics, binaural beats, or light-and-sound stimulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience#Spiritual
Since you are not following any spiritual traditions and engaged in the various practices as in 2, your experience of non-duality is likely to arise from 1, maybe temporal epilepsy or something else that happened in your brain.
If not, do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
It's all fictional story man. Seriously, it means diddly squat, flush it down the toilet for all its worth, what's important here is that which is aware of the story that is not identified with the story, that's all that matters. Nonduality does not mention any of this Bullcrap in its literature. I don't think you fully understand what nonduality is pointing to, your just another knowledge junkie, welcome to the zombie jamboree.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 am do you have any idea how you get to experience non-duality directly?
Yes.
You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.
What you think you are, is the experience no thing is having...but it's just an idea, so what is an idea?.. I have no idea.
Your ideas above are a messed-up of conflations.
Dontaskme:
You don't experience it...you cannot experience that which does not exist.
What is that "it" if "it' does not exist?
That is why I have stated your thoughts are messed up and you just cannot see it yourself.
In the case of the concept of non-duality, there are two perspective to it i.e.
- 1. Knowledge of non-duality.
2. Direct experience plus knowledge of non-duality.
One good example is the non-dual experiences of Jill Bolte, the neuroscientist, which I presume you are familiar with [?].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU
While Jill Bolte was in an altered state of consciousness of non-duality [from a serious brain damage] and an apparently complete detachment from her normal conscious waking self [i.e. not associated with Jill Bolte the person], there is still a 'self'* of that specific body that was experiencing that non-duality.
*there are many layers of a person's self beyond one normal conscious within the sub-conscious self.
In Jill Bolte's case, she was able to shift from her subconscious self to her normal waking self. It is just like one is chased by a monster in a dream state, but is able to wake up suddenly by various means into normal waking consciousness.
In this case, Jill Bolte have had a direct experience of non-duality [no "I am Jill Bolte'] and this direct experience permeated through her normal waking conscious state as an experience. In this case there are two perspectives an experiencing.
Note while there was an experience without the basis of 'I am Jill Bolte' but simply an experience, such an experience is still specifically confined to that living human body which is identified as Jill Bolte's.
As in the above example, Jill Bolte have direct experience and gain direct knowledge of non-duality from her experience.
But note the fact is, Jill Bolte is not in a constant state of non-duality but the experience is so significant that she is aware of it easily.
It is just like an orgasm [which many posit is a split second non-dual state] which is not with the person 24/7.
As for me I have prior knowledge of non-duality from reading and have had experienced of non-duality [not as pronounced as Jill Bolte's] during meditation sessions [not all the time].
It would better with direct experience, but what is most important within spirituality and philosophy is whether one know and have established the competence of how to apply the concept of duality [better with experience] to one's life positively.
This is why in most matured spirituality, the attention is not on the experience of non-duality like that of Jill Bolte but rather on the concept and knowledge of how to apply non-duality to real life.
Another critical point is one cannot focus merely on non-duality but it must be complemented with the principles of duality in every aspect of one's life. Note the Buddha's Two-Truth Theory.
The over focus on non-duality like what you are doing is actually engaging duality itself within your subconscious self and ended with chasing an illusion within the subconscious level of your mind/brain.
Note Jill Bolte experienced a very extreme form of non-duality due to a severe brain damage [stroke]. There is a possibility one could experience non-duality from some very minor stroke or other
anomaly in the brain [note the wiki list I linked above], which could be your case because you did not experience non-duality via known established spiritual practices, drugs, other perverted practices, etc.
