Philosophy Now Forum

SpheresOfBalance wrote: ↑Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:50 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Why do philosophers need to agonise over right and wrong? Is it wrong to torture a kitten? Any normal person will say, 'of course it is', but a philosopher will say,' it's purely subjective, there is no right or wrong answer'.

Then that 'particular' philosopher doesn't understand something very fundamental.

A psychopath is not in touch with reality. It could be argued that rationalists are psychopaths, while empiricists are not.

Rationalists and empiricists aside, the answer to the kitten question may indeed be subjective, since a true psychopath might think it's not wrong to torture a kitten. Applying the question itself only to normal people, it may indeed be a trivial thing over which to agonize.

But there are other questions, not merely questions from philosophy of ethics. Is it right or wrong to believe in a deity? Is it right or wrong that thought can exist without language? Is it right or wrong to say that dualism is the answer to the mind/brain problem?

(Perhaps right v wrong should be limited to what is good v evil. In which case, correct v incorrect, as my examples above imply, should be dismissed out of hand at this time. If so, please disregard this post.)

I bet it helps.

commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:37 pm A psychopath is not in touch with reality. It could be argued that rationalists are psychopaths, while empiricists are not.

A far better argument would be a rationalists who uses empirical data to further their selfish agenda.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:47 pm Why do philosophers need to agonise over right and wrong? Is it wrong to torture a kitten? Any normal person will say, 'of course it is', but a philosopher will say,' it's purely subjective, there is no right or wrong answer'.

Psychopaths have no interest in truth. Philosophers search for truth. Some psychopaths are philosophers. Some philosophers are psychopaths. The latter two groups search for something to disregard.

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:02 pm Psychopaths have no interest in truth. Philosophers search for truth. Some psychopaths are philosophers. Some philosophers are psychopaths. The latter two groups search for something to disregard.

The quest for Truth (with a capital T) is a red herring.Religion like any other.

I am on the quest for utility and in that search I disregard useless knowledge. Like philosophy.
If it has no practical application - it's a waste of time.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:30 pm
The quest for Truth (with a capital T) is a red herring.Religion like any other.

I am on the quest for utility and in that search I disregard useless knowledge. Like philosophy.
If it has no practical application - it's a waste of time.

Pragmatist!

SecularCauses wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:39 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

SecularCauses wrote:
Yes, it actually does change it. You put the word "particular" in quotes, which is a statement that this problem exists in a single philosopher, as opposed to being pervasive throughout the discipline. How dumb can you be not to understand what you have written?

No it doesn't, she said 'a philosopher' which is a 'particular philosopher.' Context is everything my son. And so if she referenced another, then obviously it would apply to that particular one as well, and so on and so on. For that matter even you were smart enough to say "...pretty much all...," so you now seemingly contradict yourself. I was simply addressing the particular one in question, however many that might include, since she hadn't sited a definitive number.

Philosophers have to be crazy by definition because they do not deal with reality. Scientists deal with reality. Even plumbers. But not philosophers.

Science is just another word for: Natural Philosophy.

Philosophy can be rational as well. To make theoretical physics and make predictions about behaviour of sub-atomic particles for use in every-day technological wonders of our world, is also philosophy.

Politics is the real thing. But what is politics? Philosophy.

Philosophy comes from the greek words: Philos = passion, Sophos = skilled/wise. A Philosopher is someone who has a passion of becoming skilled (in wisdom/knowledge/education, that is).

A psychopath doesn't care about others. That's what makes them what they are. Many philosophers care about others. Many philosophers are not psychopaths.

philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:32 pm

SecularCauses wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:39 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote: No it doesn't, she said 'a philosopher' which is a 'particular philosopher.' Context is everything my son. And so if she referenced another, then obviously it would apply to that particular one as well, and so on and so on. For that matter even you were smart enough to say "...pretty much all...," so you now seemingly contradict yourself. I was simply addressing the particular one in question, however many that might include, since she hadn't sited a definitive number.

Philosophers have to be crazy by definition because they do not deal with reality. Scientists deal with reality. Even plumbers. But not philosophers.

Science is just another word for: Natural Philosophy.

Philosophy can be rational as well. To make theoretical physics and make predictions about behaviour of sub-atomic particles for use in every-day technological wonders of our world, is also philosophy.

Politics is the real thing. But what is politics? Philosophy.

Philosophy comes from the greek words: Philos = passion, Sophos = skilled/wise. A Philosopher is someone who has a passion of becoming skilled (in wisdom/knowledge/education, that is).

Indeed. So many people have been led to believe that philosophy is useless. The term itself has a stigma attached to it now-a-days.... Sad... Orwellian... Machiavellian...

Such is what happens when one draws conclusions about all of philosophy based upon inadequate knowledge.

creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:34 pm A psychopath doesn't care about others. That's what makes them what they are. Many philosophers care about others. Many philosophers are not psychopaths.

I think psychopathy is more common among people than what we're told.

This includes philosophers as well, there is no difference here.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say at least 50 % of all humans share at least 75 % of all the psychopaths Big Five personality factors.

No, I do not have any data to back up my claim, it is based only on observation through news media, world stories and the entire span of human history involving nothing but Machiavellianism, Narcissism and Psychopathy.

Throughout the entire human history, people have not only killed, tortured, waged war and enslaved one another - they also seem to enjoy it pretty much and take pleasure in harming one another.

philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:42 pm

creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:34 pm A psychopath doesn't care about others. That's what makes them what they are. Many philosophers care about others. Many philosophers are not psychopaths.

I think psychopathy is more common among people than what we're told.

This includes philosophers as well, there is no difference here.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say at least 50 % of all humans share at least 75 % of all the psychopaths Big Five personality factors.

No, I do not have any data to back up my claim, it is based only on observation through news media, world stories and the entire span of human history involving nothing but Machiavellianism, Narcissism and Psychopathy.

Throughout the entire human history, people have not only killed, tortured, waged war and enslaved one another - they also seem to enjoy it pretty much and take pleasure in harming one another.

I would argue that there are psychopaths in the position of elected officials. So yeah, I'm in agreement with the gist of what you're saying here.

creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:38 pm Indeed. So many people have been led to believe that philosophy is useless. The term itself has a stigma attached to it now-a-days.... Sad... Orwellian... Machiavellian...

Such is what happens when one draws conclusions about all of philosophy based upon inadequate knowledge.

On the other hand - philosophers insist that it is useful, and I am still trying to discover this well-hidden utility...

There was a time when philosophers did great work in Mathematics, then the mathematicians went their own way.
There was a time when philosophers did great work in Natural Science, then the physicists went their own way.

All that was left to philosophers was logic. And computer scientists stole that from them also...

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:47 pm Why do philosophers need to agonise over right and wrong? Is it wrong to torture a kitten? Any normal person will say, 'of course it is', but a philosopher will say,' it's purely subjective, there is no right or wrong answer'.

I disagree with you. I think very strongly that it is WRONG to torture kittens.

philosopher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:42 pm
If I had to make a guess, I'd say at least 50 % of all humans share at least 75 % of all the psychopaths Big Five personality factors.

What are the Big Five. I could only find 8 & 10 in the DSM-5.