Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:25 pm**

Thank you for that Rick.

I can't wait to read what Dr Mary Midgley got the award for, in stupidity.

Posted: **Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:43 pm**

Could Niels Bohr's feeling stupid be a result of unintended consequences or what he called the complementarity principle?

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:18 pm**

RickLewis wrote:We gave the Award to Dr Mary Midgley. I'll put a full report online soon.

Spike, sorry if the point of my example was unclear and has been bugging you. I was trying to make clear that stupidity comes in several varieties, and that we are none of us immune from them all.

Actually I think the variety of stupidity which might result in people trying to build subways in the air is the least interesting and least complex kind.

I think the point of Niels Bohr's comment ("What idiots we all have been!") was not that they were previously wrong about the possibility of splitting the atom. After all, these were complex matters right at the cutting edge of physics. I think Bohr said that because they had been assuming that the atom couldn't be split, and that this unexamined assumption had prevented them from seeing the simplest explanation of the experimental results which had been puzzling them all. It had been staring them in the face, but they didn't see it because of an unexamined and unjustified assumption.
immediately
My point wasn't about collective rather than individual stupidity - though that might well be an interesting distinction and I touched on this in a Daily Telegraph comment article a week or so ago. Bohr and the other scientists from physics' "golden age" in the 1920s and 1930s are among my heros and my point was just about one of the ways even very clever individuals can be stupid in one particular way.

Sorry for this rushed posting.

I am still thinking Bohr and his colleagues were not stupid not to know that the atom could be split or had been. Bohr's "What idiots we all have been!" was just a figure of speech. Up to that moment Bohr hadn't the smarts or knowledge to see what they eventually saw. To label himself stupid suggested there was an a priori about atom splitting, which there wasn't. So how could that stupidity have been prevented?

It's like saying that the inventor of the laser was stupid not to have immediately realized its potential. When it was first invented no one knew what good it was for.

Posted: **Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:34 pm**

Yesterday I had a Niels Bohr moment where I slapped myself on the forehead and said, What an idiot! What happened is, like with Neils Bohr, I had an experience where I hadn't connected the dots, or atoms.

For years I had known a person but wasn't aware that he was a journalist with one of our leading newspapers. But what made my feel stupid is that I hadn't realized for all those years that he was the financial editor of the newspaper and wrote about economic matters, one of my favorite subjects. I thought to myself, I should have known better and been aware of this considering that he wrote about one of my favorite subjects. How stupid of me! I can't believe I didn't know.

But was it stupid of me not to know or was just a matter of me not connecting the dots, like probably Niels Bohr hadn't done in not realizing that the nucleus of the atom could be split. Nevertheless, I should have known, I am thinking.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:30 pm**

spike wrote:
Godfree wrote:I think the instrument is a little blunt ,
too general and doesn't really hit the nail on the head .

What instrument is a little blunt, to hit what nail on the head?

well I suppose this is the right thread for stupidity ,,,
spike , an instrument ,a tool , a post ,
the instrument is/was Ricks method or strategy ,
his angle or point of view , is his instrument ,
the nail ,,,requires accurate targeted strikes ,
not vague random or general hitting , no we have to be precise ,
it is not enough to show a nail and a hammer,
we also have to explain how to hit ,why to hit, when to hit ,
otherwise we get no end of lame questions that end up going nowhere ,
this is a great platform for us to exchange knowledge on ,
Rick sounds like a very knowledgeable fellow,
I guess he would rather you came to these realizations all by yourself ,
without him having to spell it out ,
but as I have stated , waiting for the people to work it out for themselves ,
is the long slow mistake ridden means of getting there ,
Rick would have given you the knowledge a lot sooner ,
had he just spat it out from the start,,!!!

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:52 am**

well I suppose this is the right thread for stupidity ,,,
spike , an instrument ,a tool , a post ,
the instrument is/was Ricks method or strategy ,
his angle or point of view , is his instrument ,
the nail ,,,requires accurate targeted strikes ,
not vague random or general hitting , no we have to be precise ,
it is not enough to show a nail and a hammer,
we also have to explain how to hit ,why to hit, when to hit ,
otherwise we get no end of lame questions that end up going nowhere ,
this is a great platform for us to exchange knowledge on ,
Rick sounds like a very knowledgeable fellow,
I guess he would rather you came to these realizations all by yourself ,
without him having to spell it out ,
but as I have stated , waiting for the people to work it out for themselves ,
is the long slow mistake ridden means of getting there ,
Rick would have given you the knowledge a lot sooner ,
had he just spat it out from the start,,!!!

This, Godfree, doesn't explain much.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:05 pm**

spike wrote:
well I suppose this is the right thread for stupidity ,,,
spike , an instrument ,a tool , a post ,
the instrument is/was Ricks method or strategy ,
his angle or point of view , is his instrument ,
the nail ,,,requires accurate targeted strikes ,
not vague random or general hitting , no we have to be precise ,
it is not enough to show a nail and a hammer,
we also have to explain how to hit ,why to hit, when to hit ,
otherwise we get no end of lame questions that end up going nowhere ,
this is a great platform for us to exchange knowledge on ,
Rick sounds like a very knowledgeable fellow,
I guess he would rather you came to these realizations all by yourself ,
without him having to spell it out ,
but as I have stated , waiting for the people to work it out for themselves ,
is the long slow mistake ridden means of getting there ,
Rick would have given you the knowledge a lot sooner ,
had he just spat it out from the start,,!!!
This, Godfree, doesn't explain much.

spike ,,,obviously I to have failed to express myself in a manner you can grasp,
I need to work on my simplicity ,
in order to reach the masses we must remind ourselves not to go over the heads of them , and make references they won't understand,
you also need to work on your ability to understand ,
the two references I made are what you call common knowledge ,
or well known references , like which planet do you come from and when did you get here ,???

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:19 pm**

Godfree, the sarcasm is good. One doesn't need to be stupid to understand it.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:16 pm**

spike wrote:Godfree, the sarcasm is good. One doesn't need to be stupid to understand it.

You are probably smarter than you think ,
people often give too much credit to figures of authority ,
or anybody you perceive to be an expert ,
When you said my reply "didn't explain much" ,
I thought it explained everything rather well ,,??
learning to trust your own judgment can be scary at first ,
but you may surprise yourself , making good decisions ,
is an important part of gaining knowledge ,
if you opt out of the responsibility and look to others to tell you ,
what is real and what is not ,
then you are at the mercy of the spin doctors the ,
car salesmen ,con artists and preachers of this world ,
so never mind exposing your inner self , have a go ,
Reality according to SPIKE , let me have it ,, both barrels ,
you have nothing to lose , stand up and be counted ,,!!!

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:27 pm**

Godfree wrote:
spike wrote:Godfree, the sarcasm is good. One doesn't need to be stupid to understand it.
You are probably smarter than you think ,
people often give too much credit to figures of authority ,
or anybody you perceive to be an expert ,
When you said my reply "didn't explain much" ,
I thought it explained everything rather well ,,??
learning to trust your own judgment can be scary at first ,
but you may surprise yourself , making good decisions ,
is an important part of gaining knowledge ,
if you opt out of the responsibility and look to others to tell you ,
what is real and what is not ,
then you are at the mercy of the spin doctors the ,
car salesmen ,con artists and preachers of this world ,
so never mind exposing your inner self , have a go ,
Reality according to SPIKE , let me have it ,, both barrels ,
you have nothing to lose , stand up and be counted ,,!!!

I think you, Godfree, have gone of the rails. Also, you have ventured into a deeper subject that I can absorb - veniality.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:55 pm**

spike wrote:
Godfree wrote:
spike wrote:Godfree, the sarcasm is good. One doesn't need to be stupid to understand it.
You are probably smarter than you think ,
people often give too much credit to figures of authority ,
or anybody you perceive to be an expert ,
When you said my reply "didn't explain much" ,
I thought it explained everything rather well ,,??
learning to trust your own judgment can be scary at first ,
but you may surprise yourself , making good decisions ,
is an important part of gaining knowledge ,
if you opt out of the responsibility and look to others to tell you ,
what is real and what is not ,
then you are at the mercy of the spin doctors the ,
car salesmen ,con artists and preachers of this world ,
so never mind exposing your inner self , have a go ,
Reality according to SPIKE , let me have it ,, both barrels ,
you have nothing to lose , stand up and be counted ,,!!!
I think you, Godfree, have gone of the rails. Also, you have ventured into a deeper subject that I can absorb - veniality.

well Spike ,, that was me making as easy as I could ,
if this was like American Idol , you would be out in the first round ,
like you just can't sing in tune or on melody ,
thinking doesn't seem to be your thing Spike ,
your not grasping some fairly basic beginner level concepts ,
how old are you? , your name and inexperience would suggest your young ,
and don't worry about being to vain ,
if you don't believe in yourself , why should anybody else ,,???

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:19 pm**

JasonPalmer wrote:knowledge is power

the state now realises this

could explain why 'unto this last' by john ruskin is not in the bishopsgate library !

The little secret is that they have known this since, at least, Francis Bacon, who coined the term.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:22 pm**

JasonPalmer wrote:stupid people tend to have more kids than smart people

intelligence is bad for your genes ?

It is certainly not selective in the Darwinian sense.
It might not all be bad, though. Intelligence is not just about genes.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:23 pm**

spike wrote:
JasonPalmer wrote:stupid people tend to have more kids than smart people

intelligence is bad for your genes ?
This is a stupid remark.

How many siblings do you have?

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:53 am**

spike wrote:I don't know about you, but there is something absurd about this editorial. The example of stupidity it uses doesn't necessarily illustrate stupidity.

It talks about scientist thinking they were stupid in believing that the atom couldn't be split. When physicists eventually split it they shouted what idiots they were to think that way. To me this is not an example of stupidity but perhaps naivety or inexperience.

Why not mention something really stupid like trying to build a subway (underground) in the air. But who knows, maybe that will be possible some day.

!

Yeah underground in the air?

Probably the stupidest statement of the week.

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