Philosophy Now Forum

This idea of yours, Sanjay, that human soul has body and mind too, only subtle ones, strikes me as very surprising.

Could it be that your reasoning behind this is:

Bodies get tired.
My soul feels sometimes tired too.
Therefore my soul must also have some kind of (subtle) body.


Just for clarification:

A human being has a body and a soul.
His body has a body and a mind (both un-subtle).
His soul has a body and a mind (both subtle).

Is this what you argue for ?

HI duszek,

Yes my friend.
You got it absolutely right but my reasoning for this notion is entirely different.

If you want to know how i derived this cogitation, then please have a look at the page 16 of the thread 'the yoga of the philosophers' and try to go through my last post which i posted just 5 minutes ago.

That is a long post and i do not want to repeat here the same.

You can pick points from there and even other than that also for our further discussion.

with love,
sanjay

I dunno anything about dream interpretations only those superstitious beliefs that were inherited from the oldies. One is when you woke up late in the morning that dream of yours has the possibility to turns in reality. I find it ridiculous, how will they be so precise about it.

Yes, threatening animals often appear in dreams.
A speaking scorpion.
Or a lemon-coloured tiger trying to get into the office and I trying to keep the door closed on him and crying for reinforcements but there is nobody to help me keep the tiger outside.

Was the voice of the scorpion male or female ?

duszek wrote:
Was the voice of the scorpion male or female ?

Hi duszek,

It was male.

Hi Sanjay,

Do you believe that soul's body and mind can die in the same way or similar to un- subtle body and mind?

Did he sound like a bad guy from a Western movie ?
Or like a wicked schoolboy ?

Hi deszuk and AS,

Arts wrote- Do you believe that soul's body and mind can die in the same way or similar to un- subtle body and mind?

Yes, there is no difference in a human and his soul, but, the quantity and quality.
Soul takes birth and dies in the same way as we do; as she is not immortal. I am not sure about the numbers of her life cycle, but, a human life is not more than some months for her; definitely not more than a year.

She has a mind and body as well but her body is made of different subtle matter that corresponds to the subtle dimension. Let me clear one thing here that this very body of soul, which uses to live here, with humans, is not her real body, but its essence or consciousness. The real body of the soul was left on the spiritual realm from where the soul comes. I do not know the exact mechanism, but, it is something like that. She owns a family and society too there. She has all emotions like us; good and bad ones too. She fights, loves, hates, learns, marries and even has sex just like us. Let me tell you one more interesting thing that souls even prey, worship and meditate like us.

On the contrary, it would be more appropriate to say that human is a mini, short or abbreviated version of the soul.

I think all members are aware of a reality show named ‘Big Brother’. We live the life of humans just as the contestants of that. We can compare the house of ‘Big Brother’ with the earth and the orders and guidelines of the show with the circumstances and destiny. But, there is a difference. Contestants of the show have the remembrance of their life, which is earned prior to go there, but, it is not in the case of humans. We do not have access to the remembrance of the mind of soul, though she has access to human’s mind.

We all see threatening animals in the dreams. There is nothing unusual in this as all of us see these kinds of things in the dreams.

AS-

These are not animals. The scorpion is a power or we can say that he is a deity. The same is applicable to tiger. The scorpion is a male for sure, because it is a male deity. Although you did not mention his size but I am sure that it was much bigger than the usual one; at least the size of dog or may be bigger. The tiger is also a MOUNT of a goddess. So, there is no need to be afraid. But, beware of all types OF BEES, PLAYING BALLS AND BLUE INK. These are not a good sign because it means that we are going to put on some sort of test, and thus, difficult times are ahead. But, on the other hand, it is unavoidable also.

You earlier mentioned about a dream, in which, a heart draws itself on the light brown wall.

That brown wall represents you or your total existence. The shape of heart is indicating that the destiny is implanting some new thought, idea or belief in your intellect. It is again a good sign so; keep a close eye on the developments around you.

You also mentioned about your childhood dream.

That girl is your eternal wife and she is living with you 24/7 since that dream occurred. She is here to train or test you. Neither is she Satan nor you. Painting your nails, reminding of ‘Barney Rubble from the Flintstones’ and no. 666 are your spiritual or eternal endorsement and identification. Each and every one of us has an ID no. This is essential for keeping the accounts. So, you are just told about that.

The same is for the next part. That dead lamb is the real body of your soul which is preserved safely in the corresponding realm. If you look carefully, then you will understand that the total scenario represents a grave, on which, flowers are offered. Offering of flowers means that nears and dears of your soul are missing her.

Painting murals means that you are doing your job. If you are satisfied with your painting in the dreams, then the job is well done, otherwise not.

The kids in your dreams have nothing to do with your real kids. They represent some other souls dependent on you, which have some relation with you, thus, you are helping them in the journey from hassle.

AS, tell that if you ever noticed that whether you have floaters in your eyes or not. Check it.

Friends, what I am saying about soul and all this stuff is not just my belief. It is much beyond that.

with love,
sanjay

Hi duszek,

The males voice was like you would imagine the big bad wolf in little red riding hood.

Hi Zinnat and thanks,

Z:Yes, there is no difference in a human and his soul, but, the quantity and quality.
Soul takes birth and dies in the same way as we do; as she is not immortal. I am not sure about the numbers of her life cycle, but, a human life is not more than some months for her; definitely not more than a year.

AS: I am confused. How is it possible to have an "eternal wife" as you say I have in my dream but then be mortal? Also, you speak of soul as "she". Are all souls female? What are males...different than souls? Or are there male and female souls? I would appreciate the link to your long post in that other thread you mentioned because I can't find it and I would like to read it.

Z: The real body of the soul was left on the spiritual realm from where the soul comes. I do not know the exact mechanism, but, it is something like that. She owns a family and society too there. She has all emotions like us; good and bad ones too. She fights, loves, hates, learns, marries and even has sex just like us. Let me tell you one more interesting thing that souls even prey, worship and meditate like us.

AS: You mean soul has a body some where else? Soul's body is apart from soul in a "spiritual realm'? She owns a family in the spiritual realm but not in her "realm"? Can soul travel between the human world and the soul world? Does soul know of us directly or do we seem like a dream to soul too? Does she experience our presence differently than we experience hers?

What happens to soul when she dies? Is there anything that is immortal in the universe?

You speak of a God...is he immortal?

Z: We do not have access to the remembrance of the mind of soul, though she has access to human’s mind.

AS: Can she see when we die? If so does she feel sadness about our death. Does she feel fear knowing she will die soon?

Z: Although you did not mention his size but I am sure that it was much bigger than the usual one; at least the size of dog or may be bigger.

AS:Yes, he was much bigger than I was...the size of a grown man to a child the age of 5. He looked like a cross between Mr. peanut from planters peanuts fame or like the big bad wolf.

Z:The tiger is also a MOUNT of a goddess. So, there is no need to be afraid. But, beware of all types OF BEES, PLAYING BALLS AND BLUE INK. These are not a good sign because it means that we are going to put on some sort of test, and thus, difficult times are ahead. But, on the other hand, it is unavoidable also.

AS: Do you fear your dreams when you have these types? I am asking if the certain type of knowledge/talent you have for interpreting dreams makes you dread falling asleep or makes you fearful of losing the things you love in your life?

Z:You earlier mentioned about a dream, in which, a heart draws itself on the light brown wall.

AS: That was duzsek's dream.

Z:That girl is your eternal wife and she is living with you 24/7 since that dream occurred. She is here to train or test you.

AS:I don't understand. Women can have "eternal wives'? And why does she not appear in any dreams since if she is here 24/7? Is she immortal? Is she another human's soul? If so can my soul be someone else's "eternal wife"?

Z:Neither is she Satan nor you. Painting your nails, reminding of ‘Barney Rubble from the Flintstones’ and no. 666 are your spiritual or eternal endorsement and identification. Each and every one of us has an ID no. This is essential for keeping the accounts. So, you are just told about that.

AS: I don't understand the "accounts". Why would we need accounts if we are mortal? What is the point of existence? In Christianity "666" is the mark of the beast...which I guess is Satan. But I am not sure...anyway....do numbers have any significance in the spiritual realm?

Z: Offering of flowers means that nears and dears of your soul are missing her.

AS: DO we every get to meet her (soul's body?) again?

Z:AS, tell that if you ever noticed that whether you have floaters in your eyes or not. Check it.

AS: No I have not noticed floaters any different than what I have had all my life. But 6 month ago I had an eye test which the doc said she needed to keep check on something...I can't remember exactly what....glaucoma perhaps?

Z:Friends, what I am saying about soul and all this stuff is not just my belief. It is much beyond that.

AS: What do you mean is is beyond you belief? Is this your "religion" or did you make some sort of discovery? I am asking if your beliefs correspond with a religious preference I am not familiar with...sorry for my ignorance. I am just curious.

duszek wrote:I wonder if some people here might be interested in interpreting dreams. I remember from school, when we were talking about Freud, that one can interpret one´s own dreams best. But sometimes a dream does not make any sense. So some reactions from other people can give one a clue. ...

Hmm ... although its true that Freud thought ones dreams are insights to ones unconscious I doubt its as simple as the dreamer just interpreting them. The process would normally be the therapist listening over a few sessions to see if there is a common theme in the dreams, if there is then, "Zo, you 'ave mentioned 'sheep' in your dreams?" and then just let the person self-analyse themselves through words and association. The idea that the therapist makes any actual interpretation of the dreams is an error as Freud thought there no simple correspondence to a dreams content and the unconscious, so others 'interpretation' or reaction would be of little use.

A few days ago I dreamt of a dark night, no street lanterns (they seemed to have been switched off or run out of energy), lots of fog, me on a side-walk, and suddenly a car coming in a curve from the right and approaching me on the side-walk as if the driver wanted to park. I became alarmed and did not know how to make myself visible so that the driver sees me and stops before crashing into me. I wanted to wave frantically and then I woke up.

Any thoughts ?

Do you live near a road? Is it busy or not? Does it have street-lamps? Do you sleep with your window open? What woke you? As dreams occur between just waking and just falling asleep.

Hi AS and duszek,

I think I should try to explain my perception in a nutshell. It is not much difficult to conceive, though it looks a bit like labyrinth in the starting.

Let us forget about the humans for a moment.

There are many spiritual or subtle realms inhabited in this universe. They can be categorized broadly in two groups; subtle and astral. In my opinion there is nothing in the names. We can name them as we want. There are further more stages or subgroups, but, I do not think that there is any need to go in detail of that.

They live their own life there, just as humans live here on the earth. They are not immortal but have a very long life. As I said earlier, they live, think, behave and do all those good and bad things, which we can do or imagine. They own friends, enemies, family, society and even leaders, rulers, kings, queens and all these kinds of stuff. Furthermore, they use to interact with each other and have relations also. They are very big and enumerable. I cannot say about their numbers.

They have a body and a mind as humans though their body is made of those elements or matters, which are present in their realm; and that is different and subtle than ours.
Even being superior to humans in many aspects, they have a drawback. Time runs very slowly there, hence, their life is very long but slow. So, it takes too much time to learn there.

Our inhabitance, the earth and the humans, solves this problem. They use to send their people from there, in the form of soul, to take birth here. The whole existence of them does not come here, but, they keep the main body there in safe and send the ‘mind’ and ‘essence’ here which is embedded with our human existence; since our birth till death. It learns here by living and witnessing human life 24/7 with us, and goes back to its original realm when human body dies. Then it once again enters the main body, which is preserved there and uses to live its regular life there. Now, the job is done; in much less time and more effectively.

Actually, the earth is like a boarding school for them. It is training and testing center for spiritual entities, nothing else. It is done by the circumstances. For this, a huge number of spiritual entities are permanently placed here on earth. This establishment creates circumstances and we call it destiny.

As you saw that little girl in your dream, you may call her your spiritual guide. She will take care of you through your whole life. She will guide you sometimes and misguide you as well. She is able to infuse different thoughts in your mind without your knowledge and you will mistake them as yours and act accordingly. She will do all this to serve the purpose of either training or testing, but, she is not your enemy. You may call her mentor.

Let me tell you that you are not one off case. This happens to almost all of us. Each and every one is taken care of by someone or sometimes by many, in some cases.
By calling soul as ‘she’, I am not mentioning the gender. To avoid confusion, we may call it as ‘it’. It does not make any difference. The soul of a human male will be male and the same is for the female.

When a soul comes here then it leaves behind its family there. In family, there may be wife, children, parents, friends etc. They come to visit souls here, because it belongs to them. It is just like that; parents use to visit sometimes their children, when they use to study in the boarding school away from parents.

It can see when we die, but, it is not a moment of fear for it. For it, it is like going home, but, only in that case, if it’s training and testing would be completed. Otherwise, it would has to incarnate again and this process will go on till, it would be able to learn completely, for what it was sent.

More often than not, the role of mentor is performed by spouses, with the help of already placed establishment here. If it is not a spouse, then it must be very close blood relative like sister, mother, brother or father. In your case, if you are a male, then that girl must be either your wife or going to be one. If you are a female, then she must be very close relative of your soul or, as an exception, may be very close friend.

She is not a soul of any other human, because she has to live with you always and it is not possible for any such soul, which is already attached with a different human body, though the souls of humans also interact with each other in dreams, but, it happens for some time only. She has to come regularly in your dreams for sure, but in disguise or different forms. So, you may not able to recognize her.

If you are a female, then it I possible that your soul may be a wife of male soul and the same is applicable for male soul. The spouse of your soul may be the soul of your human spouse or maybe not. It is possible either way. The marital status of your soul depends on its age, just like humans.

The word ‘eternal’ I used in the sense of having very long life cycle, but still, the souls are mortals like us.

As we all have a human identification like, voter card, pan card, driving license etc and the government keeps accounts of all its citizens. Suppose you want to go another country for some time, then you must have passport and visa for that country and you would have to show these documents there, as they identify you with those. The same is for the soul. It carries a passport and visa to live here on earth, as a human for some time. So, these are its spiritual identification; as they tell the original realm and purpose of the soul. All this ‘sealing’ of identification was shown to you in that particular dream.
When soul comes here and its schooling starts, each and every action of the incarnated soul, which reflects in the form of human deeds, is noted down. During schooling here, there are unit tests, semesters and final exams as well. All this record is maintained and updated regularly, so the status of the progress of the soul can be known at a first glance.

During human life, soul sometimes visits to its native realm and some other realms also during dreams accompanied by its mentor.

Saying beyond belief means that I experienced these things. What I am saying is not a new concept or innovation. I would like to call it some sort of ‘realization’. All this said in many different religious scriptures, but, in a different and complicated way. I am trying to narrate it simply, in the same way I experienced and conceived, thus, to be understood easily.

I am mentioning some of my posts below, if you are interested to read. Especially, look for the underlined ones as they are pertinent with our discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6446&start=765
page 52- 2 posts, page 53-1 post, page 55- 1 post, page 56-1 post, page 57-1 post

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7888&start=75
page 6- 2 posts, page7-1post, page 9- 1post, page10- 1 post, page 11- 1 post, page 12- 3 posts, page 14- 3 posts, page 15- 1 post, page 16- 5 posts ( especially, the last one)

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8053
page 1- 2 posts, page 2- 2 posts

with love,
sanjay

In my view dreams are just dreams; the unconscious doing a back-up. Sometimes we are aware of this and we remember our dream, or we are unaware of it where we don‘t remember our dream. But this ‘back-up’ takes place every time we sleep.

If a person is perhaps at a turning point in their life or is seeking some personal guidance then attempting to interpret their dream or getting help to interpret their dream may be helpful. But it’s important to realise that the real message is not in the dream, it’s in the interpretation of the dream; what the dreamer believes the dream means.

Arising_uk wrote: Do you live near a road? Is it busy or not? Does it have street-lamps? Do you sleep with your window open? What woke you? As dreams occur between just waking and just falling asleep.

Yes, I do live near a road, but my windows go out to the other side. I hardly hear the traffic at all.
But I do walk in the dark often.
Dreams could be worrying that we do during the night if we try hard not to worry during the day.
Any time a car passes you in the dark you could be theoretically dead, for a whole lot of reasons: the driver could fall asleep, be intoxicated, have a heart attack or a stroke, talk on his mobile etc.
It would be a huge inhibition to worry about such things, so maybe the worrying is done during dreams.

So some of you would have read my rants about there being a 'third-party entity' aka 'God' that has access to every synapse in ones mind...well, with that in mind, this is what happened to me a few months ago

btw i have had many lucid dreams where i knew full well that i was dreaming and have even looked at a wall and scraped it...it was as real as 'reality'!


I was laid in bed, it was about 1am and i couldnt sleep. Then 'play pool' was said to me. Straight away i was in a pub playing pool. At that point in time, i had no idea that i was in a dream, no awareness of what had just been said to me. As far as i was aware, i was playing pool and that was that. I took a shot and the balls rattled around on the table. I glanced at this chap through a doorway then looked back at the table and then felt a little embarrassed as i didnt know where the cue ball was. Then i realised it was in one of the pockets. I reached into the pocket and picked up the cue ball noticing the cue ball was not spherical but out of shape. At that point i was aware that i was in a dream. A man walked towards me and i decided to throw the ball directly at his head. He cowered and the ball disappeared into the ether.
I said to him 'i know im dreaming' as i walked towards him and his friends. Then everything went kind of freeze framed and i awoke.
On waking i remembered that prior to falling asleep a voice had said 'play pool'

You will probably say that those words were said when i had already fallen asleep. Ha ha.

.




Then I said, 'play philosopher'.

And I crafted a 'reply' to an authors post and aimed it right for his head.

Then I realized we are all in a dream.

And I said, 'play philosopher'.



.

Are these lucid dreams like day-dreaming ?
Do they occur when one is just dozing ?

Day-dreaming is not controllable. It is an expression of our wishful thinking and wishful thinking is just there, as a starting point of our willful acts in order to achieve what we want. Aristotle makes this distinction somewhere in the Nichomachean Ethics.