Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:39 pm
Perhaps the title should have been Four Awesome Dudes..... considering how that word is sooo in fashion."Four Dudes That Shook the World"
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Philosophers on the Beach
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Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:58 am
So is knob-end.spike wrote:Perhaps the title should have been Four Awesome Dudes..... considering how that word is sooo in fashion."Four Dudes That Shook the World"
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:45 pm
These dudes on the beach were most likely there while the Industrial Revolution was really taking off. I wonder if they gave any thought to it and its consequences. Industrially things in England were happening much faster than they were in Germany. If Marx was there, on the beach, like I think he should have been, I believe the conversation would have been livelier.
Marx should have been there because he was the historical antithesis to them. The other four were philosophical idealists. Marx was a materialist. He, in sense, turned those guys on their collective heads. Having Marx on the beach would have really captured the two camps of Germany philosophy that have so much influenced our world.
Do you think Nietzsche would have had any idea what the others might have been talking about? Might he instead have been deep in thought about the horse he just had a conversation with? Perhaps he was absorbed in thought about the women who had just jilted him. But, then, he may have been arguing about democracy with Kant who was a believer in its possibility, while he had nothing but disdain for it.
Were any of these individuals building sand castles while on the beach? Certainly in their minds they may have.
Marx should have been there because he was the historical antithesis to them. The other four were philosophical idealists. Marx was a materialist. He, in sense, turned those guys on their collective heads. Having Marx on the beach would have really captured the two camps of Germany philosophy that have so much influenced our world.
Do you think Nietzsche would have had any idea what the others might have been talking about? Might he instead have been deep in thought about the horse he just had a conversation with? Perhaps he was absorbed in thought about the women who had just jilted him. But, then, he may have been arguing about democracy with Kant who was a believer in its possibility, while he had nothing but disdain for it.
Were any of these individuals building sand castles while on the beach? Certainly in their minds they may have.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:07 pm
zorro wrote:These dudes on the beach were most likely there while the Industrial Revolution was taking off. I wonder if they gave any thought to it and its consequences. Industrially things in England were happening much faster than they were in Germany. If Marx was there, like I think he should have been, I believe the conversation would have been livelier.
The Industrial Revolution had been going for at least 100 years.
Marx actually WAS in England. He was buried in Highgate cemetery in London
Marx should have been there because he was the historical antithesis to them.
Jesus! Ignorant and vague.
Them - who?
The other four were philosophical idealists. Marx was a materialist. He, in sense, turned those guys on their collective heads. Having Marx on the beach would have really captured the two camps of Germany philosophy that have so much influenced our world.
It's not as if the Germans invented either.
Materialism and Idealism are not incompatible anyway.
Do you think Nietzsche would have had any idea what the others might have been talking about? Might he instead have been deep in thought about the horse he just had a conversation with? Perhaps he was absorbed in thought about the women who had just jilted him. But, then, he may have been arguing about democracy with Kant who was a believer in its possibility, while he had nothing but disdain for it.
Marxism is not and never has been antithetical to real democracy. You really need to shut up until you have read a little more.
Were any of these individuals building sand castles while on the beach? Certainly in their minds they may have.
You have built your castles in Disneyland, of fluffy clouds made of cotton candy that melt away with that inconvenient thing called education and reality.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:11 pm
"Life's a beach"
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:34 pm
You might do well to spend less time surfing and more time reading a bit of basic history.zorro wrote:"Life's a beach"
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:20 pm
Yes, that would have been good, but we are in fact thinking of producing a Marx issue sometime soon anyway. The articles will be chosen by a workers' collective (Grant and me) and copies of the magazine will be distributed equally among all our subscribers. The online edition will probably feature a number of opinion polls, each of which will have only two possible responses:zorro wrote: Marx should have been there because he was the historical antithesis to them. The other four were philosophical idealists. Marx was a materialist. He, in sense, turned those guys on their collective heads. Having Marx on the beach would have really captured the two camps of Germany philosophy that have so much influenced our world.
(a) YES!
(b) no (and please report me to the revolutionary editorial committee)
True. In fact he lies buried just on the other side of a footpath from Herbert Spencer. Interesting juxtaposition, that. If there is an afterlife, I wonder what sort of conversations those two have? In idle moments I've toyed with the idea of doing a photo essay on Highgate Cemetary, called "Marx and Spencer".chaz wyman wrote:The Industrial Revolution had been going for at least 100 years.
Marx actually WAS in England. He was buried in Highgate cemetery in London
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:00 pm
Marx was very grateful to Darwin and fully accepted the materialist understanding of evolution through competition.RickLewis wrote:Yes, that would have been good, but we are in fact thinking of producing a Marx issue sometime soon anyway. The articles will be chosen by a workers' collective (Grant and me) and copies of the magazine will be distributed equally among all our subscribers. The online edition will probably feature a number of opinion polls, each of which will have only two possible responses:zorro wrote: Marx should have been there because he was the historical antithesis to them. The other four were philosophical idealists. Marx was a materialist. He, in sense, turned those guys on their collective heads. Having Marx on the beach would have really captured the two camps of Germany philosophy that have so much influenced our world.
(a) YES!
(b) no (and please report me to the revolutionary editorial committee)
True. In fact he lies buried just on the other side of a footpath from Herbert Spencer. Interesting juxtaposition, that. If there is an afterlife, I wonder what sort of conversations those two have? In idle moments I've toyed with the idea of doing a photo essay on Highgate Cemetary, called "Marx and Spencer".chaz wyman wrote:The Industrial Revolution had been going for at least 100 years.
Marx actually WAS in England. He was buried in Highgate cemetery in London
This assisted him with the building of his own economic theory.
I think an issue on Marx would be very useful - if only to dispel the often idiotic misconception many have of his philosophy. And might help to remove the sort of caricature which you here have indulged in with your (amusing) answer (b )!!
Marx can be credited with laying the foundation of the economic theories of the 20thC. There is an excellent argument which demonstrates that Thatcher and Reagan were well versed in Marxian theory.
Marxist theory is not completely invalidated by the failure of 'communism', as it was never really implemented. His aim was to place the control of capital in the hands of the workers NOT the state. What Stalin and Mao sis was to place the control of all capital in the hands of the state - this is State Capitalist Monopoly and not what most 19thC political theorists aspired to.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:44 pm
Karl Marx has been a remarkable footnote to the evolution of economics. He got some things right but mostly wrong. His system of economics would have been perfect for a static world but certainly not for the present one that is constantly fluid and in flux.
I think Marx was famous because of his name rather than for his ideas. It's a catchy name. Had he lived a little longer he could have had a beach party with his name sakes, the Marx Brothers. Imagine the antics those guys would have gotten into.
Nevertheless, I am looking forward to PN's issue on Marx. Will the cover feature Marx looking down his nose at us?
I think Marx was famous because of his name rather than for his ideas. It's a catchy name. Had he lived a little longer he could have had a beach party with his name sakes, the Marx Brothers. Imagine the antics those guys would have gotten into.
Nevertheless, I am looking forward to PN's issue on Marx. Will the cover feature Marx looking down his nose at us?
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:50 pm
Rick:
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Marx may have been grateful to Darwin but he never bothered to visit him even though Darwin kept asking. They didn't live very far apart.
Wow! What a clever thought.I've toyed with the idea of doing a photo essay on Highgate Cemetary, called "Marx and Spencer".
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Marx may have been grateful to Darwin but he never bothered to visit him even though Darwin kept asking. They didn't live very far apart.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:25 pm
I can't believe it: I missed the joke the first time!RickLewis wrote:...otpath from Herbert Spencer. Interesting juxtaposition, that. If there is an afterlife, I wonder what sort of conversations those two have? In idle moments I've toyed with the idea of doing a photo essay on Highgate Cemetary, called "Marx and Spencer".
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:29 pm
zorro wrote:Karl Marx has been a remarkable footnote to the evolution of economics. He got some things right but mostly wrong. His system of economics would have been perfect for a static world but certainly not for the present one that is constantly fluid and in flux.
So, tell us all - I'm curious - what parts of his economic theory do you think he "got wrong"?
Most of his observations match those of Adam Smith and together they lay the basic foundations of economic thinking that has not really been surpassed - except in details.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:51 pm
Have you ever read The Communist Manifesto? Seen the effect it has?zorro wrote:...
I think Marx was famous because of his name rather than for his ideas. It's a catchy name.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:54 pm
Downe was a fuck of a long way away in those days and Marx was hardly flush.zorro wrote:Marx may have been grateful to Darwin but he never bothered to visit him even though Darwin kept asking. They didn't live very far apart.
Re: Philosophers on the Beach
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:17 am
Zorro's comments get more and more banal as the days go on.Arising_uk wrote:Have you ever read The Communist Manifesto? Seen the effect it has?zorro wrote:...
I think Marx was famous because of his name rather than for his ideas. It's a catchy name.