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Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:39 am
by Mike Strand
Good question, Godfree.
Many of us would assume such a creature is just another form of "natural" life, having evolved maybe in another part of the universe. If it were a powerful and knowing and loving form of life -- i.e. took over humanity and made us all happy and healthy and safe by ridding the world of conflict, disease, famine, etc., some folks might be tempted to call it god. Others would remain suspicious and say, "Just wait and see!"
On the other hand, if the life form tried to enslave or destroy us, some may still argue it is god bringing judgement. Others may say, "Obviously this being is the devil!"
Folks who say God is just a metaphor for Love may argue that the best chance for humanity is to take responsibility for itself and start living the golden rule.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:59 pm
by chaz wyman
Mike Strand wrote:It's interesting to read about the intelligence of orangutans or porpoises. We assume that in some sense homo sapiens is at the pinnacle of evolution, or if you don't believe in evolution, at the pinnacle of God's creation. We assume we're the ones God is interested in, that we're the ones God wants to "save".
What if God exists and really loves porpoises more than any other earthly creature? What if porpoises imagine and believe in such a God? What if God wants to save the porpoises over any other creature?
Of course, we usually confine the debate to the existence of a God whose prime interest is in us precious human beings. But shouldn't the debate be widened to the question of the existence of a God who has other favorites, or no favorites? Or is there a God for every type of creature?
Some folks believe in life after death, and often also heaven and hell, for human beings. What about porpoises and orangutans? What about our favorite pets, such as beloved dogs or cats? What about mice and fleas and ticks? Where do folks draw the line? Why draw it at humans?
It strikes me that dolphins are not stupid or arrogant enough to believe that a god would be interested in them.
I appears that dolphins get on with life and seem to find joy in living - an ability our theist friends seem to have a limited appreciation of.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:03 pm
by chaz wyman
Aetixintro wrote:I think one should focus on the existence of one or more Gods whatsoever. To ask if a God is ours is stupid, I think, but then again, the author is probably an atheist? No?
You seem to be missing the point.
The bible SPECIFICALLY points the finger at MAN, against all other creatures as god's special creation to which all salvation and interest is directed.
Please do not make me find the exact passage in the bible. You will find it in Genesis upon which all 3 Messianic religions are based; hence the phrase in the heading "OUR GOD".
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:04 pm
by chaz wyman
Wootah wrote:Typist - well posted. If anything wants war - it is nature with its tooth and claw.
Nature which is god in every sense.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:37 pm
by Godfree
I saw a doco on chimps , and the claim was that monkey invented god , and we inheirated the silly notion .
their basis for their claims was observing monkey respond to natural events such as lightening and thunder as if it were a being .
the head chimp would usually launch a challenge to such noisy moments
.also they seemed to have a special respect for interesting natural events such as waterfalls ,basically seeing things in the natural world as a being .
Then we have primitive man ,
most ancient cultures had god of wind and fire ,god of water, god of the forest etc,
sounds almost exactly like monkey ,!!!
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:21 am
by Godfree
I have been suggesting that the bbt is religions attempt to gain some sort of credibility with science .
But there is a problem with the logic .
According to the bbt ,before the bb ,
there was no space time , no space no time ,
So , where was god,????
religion imagines god is eternal ,infinite .
so on that count they aren't a good match .
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:49 pm
by chaz wyman
Godfree wrote:I have been suggesting that the bbt is religions attempt to gain some sort of credibility with science .
Religion did not come up with the BBT.
But there is a problem with the logic .
No shit?
According to the bbt ,before the bb ,
there was no space time , no space no time ,
So , where was god,????
religion imagines god is eternal ,infinite .
so on that count they aren't a good match .
So, would that mean you are now in favour of the BBT?
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:48 pm
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:Aetixintro wrote:I think one should focus on the existence of one or more Gods whatsoever. To ask if a God is ours is stupid, I think, but then again, the author is probably an atheist? No?
You seem to be missing the point.
The bible SPECIFICALLY points the finger at MAN, against all other creatures as god's special creation to which all salvation and interest is directed.
Please do not make me find the exact passage in the bible. You will find it in Genesis upon which all 3 Messianic religions are based; hence the phrase in the heading "OUR GOD".
Perhaps all interest is directed at such a being as human to determine whether this individual human entity has the right to reincarnate as...human...or....666...no?
Is that not the ultimate question of human salvation?
Wanna live a life of foolishness....murder, rape etc...well then, become the energy of man...feed us in you next existence, i love meat.
Oh dear...who is thy judge?
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:14 pm
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:chaz wyman wrote:Aetixintro wrote:I think one should focus on the existence of one or more Gods whatsoever. To ask if a God is ours is stupid, I think, but then again, the author is probably an atheist? No?
You seem to be missing the point.
The bible SPECIFICALLY points the finger at MAN, against all other creatures as god's special creation to which all salvation and interest is directed.
Please do not make me find the exact passage in the bible. You will find it in Genesis upon which all 3 Messianic religions are based; hence the phrase in the heading "OUR GOD".
Perhaps all interest is directed at such a being as human to determine whether this individual human entity has the right to reincarnate as...human...or....666...no?
Is that not the ultimate question of human salvation?
Wanna live a life of foolishness....murder, rape etc...well then, become the energy of man...feed us in you next existence, i love meat.
Oh dear...who is thy judge?
What are you talking about?
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:10 pm
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:What are you talking about?
The rising cost of baked beans. Think i need a bretho lock on my laptop.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:24 am
by attofishpi
...baked beans are getting so expensive. What we need is a way to turn the overpopulated planet into fresh meat. Maybe i should prey to God and see if 'he' has any ideas.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:12 pm
by keithprosser2
I think the internet police will crack down on us if a thread about porpoises (etc) does not include this quote at some point:
"Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.
But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reason." - Douglas Adams.
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:31 pm
by Godfree
So, would that mean you are now in favour of the BBT?
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I don't believe it is the best answer we have ,
I was pointing out the conflict between the two ideas ,
the bbt claims "nothing " before the bang ,
creationists claim god , before creation , god and " nothing"
mans good at having this "nothing " , on hand to explain what they know
"nothing"
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:38 pm
by Godfree
attofishpi wrote:...baked beans are getting so expensive. What we need is a way to turn the overpopulated planet into fresh meat. Maybe i should prey to God and see if 'he' has any ideas.
Hi Atto ,
so for you god exists I presume ,
that you are a religious person making jokes because that way you don't expose yourself as a fundamentalist ???
Is it our god ,
well everyone can answer yes to that ,
but we are still talking as many gods as belief systems ,infact more ,
some have more than one god .
Re: If God Exists, Is It Our God?
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:03 am
by attofishpi
Godfree wrote:attofishpi wrote:...baked beans are getting so expensive. What we need is a way to turn the overpopulated planet into fresh meat. Maybe i should prey to God and see if 'he' has any ideas.
Hi Atto ,
so for you god exists I presume ,
that you are a religious person making jokes because that way you don't expose yourself as a fundamentalist ???
Is it our god ,
well everyone can answer yes to that ,
but we are still talking as many gods as belief systems ,infact more ,
some have more than one god .
Im not saving face. I would fund a mental list, and most people that truly know OUR god would be on it.